Jubilee advice needed.

[mikebse2a3]

3 hours ago, Coytee said:

All those dummies who bought them early on, had the option of black, black or unfinished.

 

Jokes on them!!

 

 

If it wasn't for us dummies buying the basic version early on the front panel options might not have ever developed..

 

I actually enjoyed putting my own spin on my Jubs

 

 

 

[Coytee]

 You're right!

 

I think all the following buyers owe us a Guinea Pig fee....  you think $100 each is fair or should it be $200?

 

[juniper]

Jubilees are truly incredible, I have heard some pricey systems costing ten times my Jub set up, and there is something very special about them. Imagine just a wall of balanced sound that is very powerful, clear, clean,open, smooth and dynamic. I run a very inexpensive amps with mine, I use  a Yamaha mx1000u a Panasonic saxr55 and use my cd player as a pre. Don't be afraid of the K69 it still sounds fantastic with many good recordings. The Tads are better but I could still live with the k69s if I didn't have Tads. The first day I set them up a friend was over, he sells very expensive watches and some of his clients have high dollar systems upwards of 200k. When the music came on within 30 seconds he said it was the clearest system he had ever heard. In fact when I was trying to do some tweeks using the same track over and over, he started to get mad, he just wanted to hear the music.

[Coytee]

You're right about the K69.  Yeah, it can be improved but that doesn't mean it's crap.

 

Couple years ago, I had a couple medical hiccups....  needed to pay some medical bills.

 

I had the TAD's at the time and figured they had some high value density so sold them, put the K69's back on....didn't miss a beat.

 

Got the medical issues (somewhat) behind me, bought two more TAD's and put them back on.  Now I'm back to having two spare K69's (I've even bought a third TAD for my (currently not in use) center channel.  So it's just sitting there....staring at me.

 

 

[Srinath]

First post here and I'll make it a good one.

I've not owned a klipsch of any significance till about a week ago. I think I had a 3.5 ~4 yrs ago, sold it rather quickly after getting it and had a 2.5 also for a short period and sold it too.

3 weeks ago, I bought a garage full of stuff in which there was a Khorn - Ok I knew that, in fact it was what I bought, the rest was mystery filler so I was told. The K horn is fine, and not the focus of this post.

There is a Jubilee that has been nearly fully built. However, it has a pair of eminence omega 15"s in each bass bin and has an octagonal rotating JBL 2405 X 4 mounted in it per cabinet.

I have no idea what the correct driver for the jubilee is, but I am pretty sure this is overkill and likely to sound awful and suck down copious amounts of power and yet sound terrible.

 

So any one have suggestions ? I have several other 15" from EV, to altec to even JBL that could be subbed in for the omega's. And I also have a raft of high end EV and altec MF/HF to turn these into a 3 way.

I guess I understand vintage components better. The EV centurions I resurrected taught me a good bit about component synergy and room characterstics etc etc.

 

Thanks.

Srinath.

[Coytee]

The Jubilee was designed to improve upon the Khorn.  One of the design goals was to raise the crossover point so it could be used in a 2-way format.  To that end, they chose to use two 12" drivers instead of 15" drivers (one or two).

 

If you want to try to finish this as a 'genuine clone' to the Jubilee, I'd guess you have already started off on the wrong foot by them building it for 15" drivers.  There are some on here that might know enough to help you salvage your situation.

 

Just keep in mind that if you use a single/double 15", you might not get the HF extension needed to take it efficiently to a 2-way design.

 

If you don't care then you're off to the races!!

 

Oh, and we always like pictures....

 

 

 

 

[Srinath]

Pics - not for a bit. The base cabs of the thing are playing barrier in my old house, and the woofers etc are in my new house - Oh yea we're moving at the same time as well. F U N.

 

I am OK with 3 way as well, I want to get a genuine 20k Hz extension, In fact I am hoping to get well beyond 20k, to the 25k range, because I can hear to 17k or so @ last test, but I believe getting to 25k means the driver delivers 20k with ease. So I am hoping that with enough power to that 20k range I can hear more.

 

I am thinking B&W matrix/nautilus style hard dome for a super tweeter, or maybe a Pioneer hpm 40 super tweet, which is incidentally sitting around with woofers in my spare parts pile.

 

Thanks.

Srinath.

[Travis In Austin]

I hear great things about that Super-tweeter, starts with an M.

 

I have posted on it in the past, I will see if I can find.

 

[Travis In Austin]

Lot of posts on Super tweeters in here.

 

Here is one that has the sensitivity for Klipsch, https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t900a-top-mount-horn-super-tweeter/

 

Tannoy has a well reviewed nice looking one, but it say max sensitivity is 95db.  From a Tannoy?

[Srinath]

32 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

I hear great things about that Super-tweeter, starts with an M.

 

I have posted on it in the past, I will see if I can find.

 

Matrix ?? Or that HPM stands for Hyper polymer molecular -

I don't need it to match the Klipsch specs, in fact, I need it to match the EV, or Eminence or something else.

Thanks.

Srinath.

[Chris A]

Travis,

 

That Fostex "super tweeter" has fairly terrible polars: -15 dB at 15 kHz for 30 degrees off-axis...and this is from their own literature.  The Fostex is what is called a "bullet tweeter", and they're known for this type of extremely poor off-axis performance. 

 

For a reference, the K-69-A on a K-402 horn is down -2.7 dB at 15 kHz for 30 degrees off-axis, measured on the K-402-MEH in my back yard "anechoic chamber". 

 

When talking the difference between 18 kHz and 20 kHz, do you realize that the difference is only a one note step musically?  I see this all the time: people in angst about 1 note on the piano (a very high frequency one, that is), but they're forgetting about the 1.5 audible/sensory octaves below 50 Hz with their direct radiating loudspeaker bass bins.    And I didn't mention the large amounts of bass distortion that is being created at normal in-room listening levels by those bass bins--on the order of 2-5% THD...which is pretty huge (and it all shows up as modulation distortion at higher frequencies).  Horn loading at the lowest frequencies avoids most of that distortion. 

 

Chris

[wvu80]

26 minutes ago, Chris A said:

When talking the difference between 18 kHz and 20 kHz, do you realize that the difference is only a one note step musically? 

If that.

 

The top note from a piano would be in the range of about 9 Khz.  Anything up that high at 18 Khz would be an overtone at best.  It would be very hard to notice such a slight variation in sound in the 18Khz to 20Khz range, and that's assuming you could hear at that range at all.  I know I can't.

[Chris A]

59 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

The top note from a piano would be in the range of about 9 Khz.

4186 Hz...to be exact.

 

When you get into unmastering music tracks, it really saves you a lot of time to know the frequencies of the different instruments/voices, even though you can see many of the fundamental and harmonic frequencies for very thinly instrumented recordings (such as jazz quartets, acoustic guitars, etc.) on the spectrograms.

[Srinath]

I've heard the same passage of music on an B&W 801 pair, an 802 pair, a B&W FCM+PCS8 set, an EV centurion pair and an EVsp12b pair in the same space and I can easily tell the difference in the highs. The order above is decreasing highs to my ear. With 801 and 802 being almost the same, the FCM/PCS being the next step down and a big step there, and the ev's being another big step down, with the 2 ev's being nearly the same. So its like ranked as 1,1.001, 3, 4 and 4.001.

 

Thanks.

Srinath.

[Chris A]

You were probably listening to the polar coverage differences at extreme high frequencies, not on-axis frequencies.  If you were sitting on-axis (i.e., both speakers toed in to zero degrees directly at your listening position) then you would hear mostly the on-axis differences between loudspeaker models--but not totally.  I would guess that you weren't directly on-axis.  Most of those "listening salons" don't toe in their loudspeakers at zero degrees at that very small listening "spot" for all models.

 

In case you haven't heard a pair of K-402/K-69-As (or TAD TD-4002s for that matter) playing, the listening "spot" is basically the width of your room assuming that you're sitting at least 9-12 feet from the loudspeakers and the room is about 15-20 feet in width. 

 

That's the point: the high frequency polars on the 2" compression drivers playing on the K-402 horns...all the way up to 15-20 kHz (depending on the exact 2" compression driver diaphragm material--beryllium being the best material by far) cover a much wider and taller angle than any "super tweeter" of the bullet variety (i.e., whose efficiency is high enough to be in the ballpark of the K-402/2" compression driver efficiency). 

 

I believe you'd benefit greatly from first hearing K-402s with 2" compression drivers before investing in "super tweeters"...you will probably find that you'll save a bundle of money if you do--and have a better sounding pair of loudspeakers.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

Here are the polar frequency response plots for the K-402 with the K-69-A 2" compression driver (i.e., the least expensive driver available stock).  On-axis response is zero degrees, and 10, 20 and 30 degree off-axis are shown relative to the on-axis response:

 

 

[PrestonTom]

Out of curiosity: You said you have jubilee bass bins that are not yet finished. How do you know the builder was copying a jubilee? How do you know if he was doing this correctly?

 

Otherwise, the HF horn is tricky. The pricey solution is to go with the Klipsch K402 (or its little brother, the K-510). That will sound very good. 

 

Check Duder's "Garage Sale" post. It looks like he has a ElectroVoice HP9040 for sale. Some folks really like these (they are big). At one time I was experimenting with a ElectroVoice HP640 on a Jubilee bass bin. It sounded good and they are dirt cheap on eBay (shipping fees can get you however). 

 

Many choices .....

Good Luck,

-Tom

 

 

[Marvel]

If you have a cabinet that looks like a Jubilee clone with 15 in woofers, it is likely one of Dana Moore's designs.

 

www.soniphase.com

[Srinath]

The guy told me they were Jubilees and they look like the ones I've seen in pics of Jubilees.

There is also a Gauss loud speaker I have from a earlier foray - GAUSS Cetec 2081 / DK2081. I also have a single jbl 2440 compression driver.

I may try to find its pair. Or maybe find a different one that woks better.

Thanks.

Srinath.

[PrestonTom]

If you can take photos of the cabinet, some of us can help determine is these are good copies or not. Either way, I am interested.

It looks like it can be an interesting project.