Frzninvt Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I have tried to reason with this guy but he doesn't get it. I think alot of the confusion stems from the two different series of Cornwall II's (the early 60's verticals and then the '85 Cornwall II's with flush mounted drivers). I am trying to get him to believe what he is autioning are Cornwall 1's which is obvious to me. Perhaps some reinforcement from the Klipsch Forum community will help. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Klipsch-Cornwall-II-Loudspeakers-Oiled-Walnut-Finish-/282353457551?hash=item41bd93d98f:g:IiIAAOSwux5YYDuU He did at least change the flyer below his auction text to reflect the original Cornwall but that is are far as I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Stop trying to be helpful. It's not your auction and the guy isn't receptive to your initial advice, so walk away. It's not your job to police eBay, regardless of how much you love Klipsch speakers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX8 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I don't see anything wrong in notifying the seller that he made a error all in an effort to protect a prospective buyer from a costly mistake. Imagine if you are the naive buyer thinking you are buying true Cornwall II speakers only to get something different. The buyer claims he purchased the speakers in 1985. I am no expert but weren't Cornwall II introduced in1986? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 You need to think about the buyer. Would you not be upset that you did not receive what you thought you purchased especially if you ponied up the $1400 asking price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I just sent him a message confirming that they are indeed originals and if he needs proof to do a google image search the see the obvious differences between the two models. I think its appropriate to help educate sellers if one is so inclined, especially in cases like this, where the seller, through no real fault of his own, has been led to believe he has a certain model which he does not have. Obviously it is a personal choice whether or not you do so but I believe it helps eBay sellers and potential buyers alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 There is about a 20% difference in the avg selling price, $829 for the C1 and $990 for the C2 according to my information. Seller's starting bid is $1,410. The seller insists his Cornwall I speakers were made in 1983. The Cornwall II was not produced until 1985. Where is the mystery? Quote The three-way Heritage Series Cornwall was first introduced in 1959 and manufactured by Klipsch until 1985. https://web.archive.org/web/20120126142110/http://www.klipsch.com/cornwall-floorstanding-speaker Quote The three-way Heritage Series Cornwall II was first introduced in 1985 and manufactured by Klipsch until 1990 https://web.archive.org/web/20111030080533/http://www.klipsch.com/cornwall-ii-floorstanding-speaker There is a Q and A in the ad. Quote Q: Those are not Cornwall II's the Cornwall II had flush mounted drivers and yours are recessed the "Y" in the S/N indicates 1983 models. Those are Cornwall 1's the efficiency is 98db vs. 101db for the Cornwall II as the tweeter and midrange are different. You may want to update your ad to reflect what you are actually auctioning. A: Dear frzninvt, FYI the serial numbers DO NOT contain a "Y" - they are respectively 31X232 and 31X233). According to the original paperwork (which I have in my hand as I type this) they are Cornwall IIs. The paperwork is in the original envelopes and includes (for each): the owner registration card (with the noted serial numbers), a brochure (that clearly says Cornwall II), a wood care and finishing letter, a card specifying the finish as walnut, a "Check for damage" insert and a letter titled "Instructions for Cornwall II". The envelopes used to be attached (with double stick tape) to the back of each speaker but over the years the glue came undone). Now it seems that the efficiency rating looks to be 98.5dB (from the original brochure) so thanks for prompting me to double check (I had used an image of the brochure directly from Klipsch) ... I will update that part to be more accurate! I also have the original response letter from Kilpsch regarding my interest in the speakers dated March 02 1984. On the back of the letter I have my notes that show we purchased these speakers new from Harvey Sound from a salesperson named Denny in White Plains NY sometime after receipt of the letter (obviously). Thanks again for your interest and pushing me to open the original paperwork -- brings back memories! Feb-11-17 A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX8 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 By the sellers response in the Q&A it appears that he went shopping around March 1984 wanting to buy Cornwall II speakers. Hi-Fi Salesman Denny, knowing they didn't have any CWII yet since they weren't even introduced, sold him original Cornwalls that were produced in 1982 (from the "X" in the serial number). Paperwork in "error" showed Cornwall II were purchased. Denny got his sale and big commission (since he sold 2 year old speakers for a premium) and bought a six pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon and tickets to an Iron Maiden concert to celebrate. It only took 32 years for the buyer to realize he was taken for a ride. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Problem is he still does not realize it. I have given up. Ignorance of the obvious is bliss I suppose. Here is his last correspondence, I really don't care I am just looking out for potential buyers perhaps some of our members here even. " I'm tired of your insistence regarding these speakers. You can say all you want and what you want BUT the F A C T is that you are wrong. You may have read a bunch, maybe even own the speaker set up you describe, perhaps been a member of the forum as you claim, etc and so on but, in the end, you're just plan W R O N G. I've now checked, double checked, and triple checked the F A C T S including thorough Klipsch and my speakers are Cornwall IIs. In my prior responses I tried to give you latitude saying "MAYBE" a lot so you could gracefully admit that you don't know it all but you seem dead set on repeating yourself without listening. You seem most stuck on that ALL Cornwall IIs had banana plug inputs and flush mounted speakers and that is simply UNTRUE. I suggest your either educate yourself further (and then you can send an apology) or just go away (as you're hopelessly uninformed and resigned to staying that way). Sorry to be so blunt ... but I've been more than patient and feel you need an awakening." Quite comical actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thanks for looking out for us, I really do appreciate it. Those subtle but important differences you pointed out to identify the Seller's speakers are important and represent the facts, not the feelings of the Seller. I have some sympathy for the seller, as he sounded sincere and he did re-check his paper work, so that should count for something. However, "triple-checking" his facts does not mean looking at the same flawed paperwork three times. He needs independent sources outside his own paperwork and memories. Mr. RX8 ^^^ hit the nail on the head when he said that the Seller is just now finding out 32 years later after the initial sale that he was lied to. In support of your concern for the Klipsch community, I sent the Ebay Seller a summary of my post "where is the mystery...^^^ directly upstream. The Seller now has a directly link that will identify when the C1 production stopped, and when C2 production began. The independent facts are clear and I think the Seller will now figure that out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I have reported sellers to ebay for fraudulent advertising. MANY times. Purposeful misrepresntation is reprehensible. It usually starts with a Q and A that establishes the seller is not "innocent." Other potential buyers will see it too. I find when I give someone the benefit of the doubt, there are two less assholes in the world... And still I struggle... In this case the price is so far out of whack that if it should be a caveat emptor for ANY prospective buyer. But I get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Odd double post. Deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Here is the response I got back: rjs1956ad Sorry but you are also misinformed. Sigh. You NEED to look at the ACTUAL information from KLIPSCH DIRECTLY ... I'm so SICK AND TIRED of people who CLAIM to know the facts when they haven't even spent the few minutes it takes to find the TRUTH. Sigh. Please do your research THOROUGHLY and when you do you can send an apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I sent him pictures of the front and back of an actual Cornwall II and encouraged him to call Klipsch to be sure if he must, I'm sure someone there can set him straight with just a serial number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 56 minutes ago, RX8 said: By the sellers response in the Q&A it appears that he went shopping around March 1984 wanting to buy Cornwall II speakers. Hi-Fi Salesman Denny, knowing they didn't have any CWII yet since they weren't even introduced, sold him original Cornwalls that were produced in 1982 (from the "X" in the serial number). Paperwork in "error" showed Cornwall II were purchased. Denny got his sale and big commission (since he sold 2 year old speakers for a premium) and bought a six pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon and tickets to an Iron Maiden concert to celebrate. It only took 32 years for the buyer to realize he was taken for a ride. Possibly a package of condoms as well ? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 How funny would it be if Roy or Jim (Hunter) sent him a comment....only to be received like those comments above. To be honest, I've never heard Frzinvt claim to be a member of the forum.... hmmmmm.....Perhaps he's an imposter... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 You could always "commit to buy" and then hit ebay with it as a reason to cancel the transaction. Bam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 He now has to link to the info at Klispch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 "Much ado about nothing"...comes to mind (thanks, "Willie-Bill" Shakespeare!). The literature packed with that particular pair of Cornwalls was most likely that for the ORIGINAL style Cornwall II (what people call the "verticals" nowadays)...after they went back to the tweeter/midrange horn layout on his, they never changed the name on the literature...until that particular literature was exhausted. "It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference"...is what PWK would be saying. BTW, do any of you ever wonder why some of the OLD Cornwalls have two porting holes routed into the motorboards and others have three?? Ponder that for a minute or two...LOL! OK...time's up! When we stopped making the CDBR Decorators (flush-front), and went to making the CBR model with the drop-in fronts, the router template became the same for those AND the mitered-joint ones since the same motorboards were used on both...as drop-in panels. They had PREVIOUSLY found that mishandling of boxed mitered-joint Cornwalls after they left the factory (especially during corner drops!!) with the two-hole motorboards would SOMETIMES result in a "cave-in" of the mitered bottom panel, with only ONE center strut strengthening that hole (the weakest point in the cabinet), so they decided to go to three holes for ALL the Cornwalls, which gave TWO supporting struts instead of just one in the porting hole section of the motorboards. Doing this was much more cost-effective than using one of the side "shelf" supports to give extra strength there. After that decision was made, there were never any more built with just two-hole porting, while I was there, anyway! Truth be known, the REAL problem was that the poplar lumber-core mitered panels which were pre-veneered prior to our receiving them, had dropped in quality of the lumber-core...with actual small voids between some of the edge-glued poplar boards in the core (where knots and such had fallen out prior to the veneers being applied), thereby structurally-weakening the panels....but that was not visible to us (when ripping and mitering those panels or building the speakers), so...the answer was to provide more strength we COULD see. The lumbercore issue was later corrected by the supplier (at more cost to Klipsch!), but the extra-strengthening strut of the porting holes was the back-up...JUST IN CASE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 OK Mr. @HDBRbuilder, you are our expert. Please identify this model, if you can. Serial number 31X232. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 CWO...or CWL...can't tell the finish from this pic. Whoever did the final assembly on this particular one was not the BEST at centering up the horn lenses before tightening down the screws, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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