Balanced Interconnects

[John Chi-town]

 

I just recently upgraded my CD Player/Transport.  Prior to that both my pre-amp and amp were connected with balanced interconnects.  I added the CD player with balanced as well.  All three now are using Monster M 1000 series balanced interconnects for connectivity.  All three pieces have "real" balanced interconnects from factory.

 

What a difference, head room seems like it has doubled, bass is much tighter, and mids and highs have improvement as well.

 

My question is why do many people think that balanced interconnects are only required for long cable runs, etc,?  INMHO there is a much improved listening experience.   

 

Best regards,

John

[Khornukopia]

It is good when all the components of a system match up, allowing equipment to function at full potential. I use XLR cables on my home theater/stereo.

[Ceptorman]

You guys are going to make me go online and look for new interconnects!

[dmb12679]

• I recently upgraded my Cd player also, balanced interconnects got here yesterday.  I'm waiting till my Aircom fans come in to do it all at once.  I'm not expecting much of a difference using balanced, but it will be welcomed if it does.

[John Chi-town]

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

You guys are going to make me go online and look for new interconnects!

 

Look at your owners manual for performance difference between XLR Balanced vs.Unbalanced connections.  I think you will be surprised.

[Coytee]

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

You guys are going to make me go online and look for new interconnects!

 

If you do this...  go to someplace like Markertek.com and buy some Mogami wire and some Neutrik XLR's and put them together.

 

In my opinion, as good as anything out there that is considered "boutique" and therefore expensive.

 

Also...  in my case, I got different colors so it's easier to know that red wire is right and green (or blue/yellow/pink) is left rather than having to worry about the ends (though you can get colored bands for the XLR connectors as well)

 

Pretty easy to make them yourself although I must admit, a third hand comes in handy (so I bought some kind of base with a pincher on it to help hold things)

 

 

[John Chi-town]

6 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

If you do this...  go to someplace like Markertek.com and buy some Mogami wire and some Neutrik XLR's and put them together.

 

In my opinion, as good as anything out there that is considered "boutique" and therefore expensive.

 

Also...  in my case, I got different colors so it's easier to know that red wire is right and green (or blue/yellow/pink) is left rather than having to worry about the ends (though you can get colored bands for the XLR connectors as well)

 

Pretty easy to make them yourself although I must admit, a third hand comes in handy (so I bought some kind of base with a pincher on it to help hold things)

 

 

 

Bought 1 Meter pairs on Ebay for $75.00 a pair.  Retailed at $250.00   Monster M1000 Series.

[Ceptorman]

25 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

If you do this...  go to someplace like Markertek.com and buy some Mogami wire and some Neutrik XLR's and put them together.

 

In my opinion, as good as anything out there that is considered "boutique" and therefore expensive.

 

Also...  in my case, I got different colors so it's easier to know that red wire is right and green (or blue/yellow/pink) is left rather than having to worry about the ends (though you can get colored bands for the XLR connectors as well)

 

Pretty easy to make them yourself although I must admit, a third hand comes in handy (so I bought some kind of base with a pincher on it to help hold things)

 

 

Thanks for the info Richard, I will give that a look. I do need 4 pairs, and one is about 10' long. Maybe Santa is watching!

[Coytee]

My opinion again...  I'd avoid the Canare wire.  I bought it once and discovered the sheath is woven (verses 'wrapped' on the Mogami)

 

Evidently, there is a trick to pull the wires out of the woven sheath but I could never master it.  MUCH easier with the Mogami to simply unwrap what you need and go from there.

 

If memory serves me, I pulled all the Canare out (not if memory serves me, I KNOW I did that) but I think I then simply made a post and gave them to someone.  I had something like six or eight 40' runs plus maybe some snippets.  Was going to trash them....  that is how much I didn't like that woven sheath!

 

Spent something like another $600 to replace them all with the Mogami and felt much better about it.

 

The woven sheath might be the cat's meow....but it didn't work for me at all.

[Coytee]

11 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

Bought 1 Meter pairs on Ebay for $75.00 a pair.  Retailed at $250.00   Monster M1000 Series.

 

 

No disrespect intended but after I saw how the wire (12g speaker wire) corroded inside the jacket and turned green over maybe 50% of the length....  I decided to rip it out and never ever buy anything from that brand again (it was Monster brand)

 

I've read about their generous warranty & such...  didn't care....  took it and threw it in the trash wanting no association nor memory of it again.

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/2534/mogami-w2534-neglex-quad-microphone-cable-black-per-foot

 

Less than $2.00/foot for the wire

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/nc3fxx/neutrik-nc3fxx-3-pin-female-xlr-nickel-silver

 

Less than $3.00 for the end (need two so call it $6.00)

 

Add some shipping and probably save some money at the same time.

[Schu]

My owners manual doesn't mention any improvement in performance... what are "Real" xlr's?

[Searing75]

 Belden is the only cable I use in all audio gear.  I highly recommend it!

[John Chi-town]

5 hours ago, Schu said:

My owners manual doesn't mention any improvement in performance... what are "Real" xlr's?

 

Real XLR inputs:

 

The advantages of balanced signaling are significant. So why are systems with balanced capability often used unbalanced? The problem is in the design of the differential or balanced drivers and receivers. These are more difficult to design with very linear low-distortion circuits. Often, the unbalanced circuits sound better because of simpler design. If the component is not designed balanced from the ground-up, the balanced circuitry often adds an additional stage to the preamp or amp. Additional stages are undesirable in principle, because each stage adds its own distortion, noise and frequency roll-off. In general, it is best not assume that the balanced and unbalanced connections on a component will sound alike , so the best advice is to try both.

 

If you look at the last couple of pages in each of my attached owners manuals under specifications, you will see the gain in performance with balanced interconnects.

 

Best regards,

John

gCD-750-ug.pdf

GFA-565-user-manual.pdf

gfp-750-ug.pdf

[John Chi-town]

6 hours ago, Coytee said:

None taken.  Glad you found a better alternative.  Regardless of brand, a lemon pops out now and then.

John

6 hours ago, Coytee said:

No disrespect intended but after I saw how the wire (12g speaker wire) corroded inside the jacket and turned green over maybe 50% of the length....  I decided to rip it out and never ever buy anything from that brand again (it was Monster brand)

 

I've read about their generous warranty & such...  didn't care....  took it and threw it in the trash wanting no association nor memory of it again.

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/2534/mogami-w2534-neglex-quad-microphone-cable-black-per-foot

 

Less than $2.00/foot for the wire

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/nc3fxx/neutrik-nc3fxx-3-pin-female-xlr-nickel-silver

 

Less than $3.00 for the end (need two so call it $6.00)

 

Add some shipping and probably save some money at the same time.

 

[adam2434]

I use the pre-made Mogami Gold XLR cables between my DAC/pre and Amp.  I have almost zero hiss/noise from the tweeters with this set-up...very clean signal transfer.

 

Certainly cheaper to build your own with the materials linked by Coytee, but still worth the money for the pre-made ones, especially compared to boutique cables.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GoldStu06

 

 

[JohnA]

23 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

 

......

 

My question is why do many people think that balanced interconnects are only required for long cable runs, etc,?  INMHO there is a much improved listening experience.   

 

Best regards,

John

 

Because balanced cables were designed for noise cancellation on long, low voltage, high gain microphone cables.  

[Schu]

3 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

 

Real XLR inputs:

 

 

g.pdf

I don't see anything about the manufacturer claiming improvements in sound.

[John Chi-town]

1 hour ago, Schu said:

I don't see anything about the manufacturer claiming improvements in sound.

 

You are correct.  There is no statement saying "improved sound".  However it shows that with balanced connections less distortion, better signal to noise ratio, etc.  Which INMHO translates to better performance and sound.

 

John

[Travis In Austin]

Did y'all just wake up or something?

 

It's been available on high-end consumer gear for over 25 years.  I think the success of BAT, in large part, caused companies like McIntosh  to start offering gear with balanced designs.

 

http://balanced.com/history

[-js-]

so, in my case, I feel like there is MUCH to learn in so many topics, with this being one of them.  I gather from this post

 

22 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

 

Real XLR inputs:

 

The advantages of balanced signaling are significant. So why are systems with balanced capability often used unbalanced? The problem is in the design of the differential or balanced drivers and receivers. These are more difficult to design with very linear low-distortion circuits. Often, the unbalanced circuits sound better because of simpler design. If the component is not designed balanced from the ground-up, the balanced circuitry often adds an additional stage to the preamp or amp. Additional stages are undesirable in principle, because each stage adds its own distortion, noise and frequency roll-off. In general, it is best not assume that the balanced and unbalanced connections on a component will sound alike , so the best advice is to try both.

 

If you look at the last couple of pages in each of my attached owners manuals under specifications, you will see the gain in performance with balanced interconnects.

 

Best regards,

John

 

 

1) - that the design is the REAL basis from which improvements can be realized.  correct?

2) - also - just because a component has balanced input/output, that alone does not necessarily mean that component is automatically better than similar, or even identical, one that has only unbalanced.  is that a correct statement/understanding?

 

if #2 is correct, what parts of the design or tech used lend to lower distortion circuits?

 

thanks for humoring me & lending me your experience

 

-John