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jubilee questions

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   I've been lurking on the forums for a few months reading about the June's, and I have a few questions, hopefully some of you guys can help me out here.  I've been looking to consolidate some of my gear in hopes of having a system that can be multi purpose, and the jubes appear to be in the realm of possibility. What I mean by that is I'm hoping to have a set of speakers that offer fidelity in the home, but can also be used for smaller events (I'm a DJ, and occasionally host events with my current gear every couple months) my current setup is not extremely impressive, but passable (2 Samson 2400watt power amps, Samson crossover, ev force i215 cabs, jbl jrx 118 subs etc).  I've looked at some other gear including funktion one, danley etc, but the pricepoint is a little out of my league considering I'm not running a live sound company. I'm interested in putting together more of a boutique HiFi vibe, than extreme club spl. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I'd like to have a setup that can be utilized around my home in between gigs (which are few and far between).  Thoughts?

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18 hours ago, -Russian-Spy- said:

I'm interested in putting together more of a boutique HiFi vibe, than extreme club spl. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I'd like to have a setup that can be utilized around my home in between gigs (which are few and far between).  Thoughts?

Ziggurat is referring to the ~230 pounds (104 kg) of weight of the two-way Jubilee--which rises to ~250 pounds (113 kg) if considering the three-way version with the K-510/K-691 on top. While the K-402-HF assembly is fairly easily carried by a single person with two hands, the bass bins are not and they don't have handles attached, so you've got a transportability issue that you're going to have to deal with.  I recommend furniture dollies and shipping blankets with straps to keep the dollies attached and under the bass bins.

 

CRW_2224.jpg.b36edaee44ff2a2fe2431c53f22fee0b.jpgCRW_2228.jpg.17822bd73877cd583630790c6a1e7067.jpg

 

As far as "hi-fi boutique" concept, if you dial the two-way Jubs in, to my knowledge there isn't another two-way or three-way loudspeaker on the planet that could compete with them in a commercial hi-fi setting (not even Danley Synergies).  These will simply blow everything else away in terms of their hi-fi capabilities. Note that the horizontal coverage angle is 90 degrees, so placement in room corners will give you 100% venue coverage.  The key here is that you need room corners--no free-standing operation of the bass bins.  If you find yourself without room corners, you'll need fairly large false corners (about 1.5-2 metres a side) or a "nose" to regain the lost bass response, whose cutoff frequency will be up around 100 Hz if you don't have them in room corners or large false corners.  Here's a picture of an add-on nose section to enable half-space operation for a similar W-section bass bin that would extend bass response to compensate for the loss of a room corner, and also improve the bass bin polar coverage at its high frequency end:

 

Levan2.jpg

 

Chris

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How large are the venues you will be wanting your system to work in?

 

I recently acquired some Klipsch MWM bass cabinets (2 15 inch woofers each), which really work well, but they are even more difficult to handle than the Jubes. However, the price was right. I will be using them for a scheduled Christmas party in early December, but I am still working on the tops for them. They weigh in at 288 lbs. each, so I won't be moving them by myself. They sound extremely good in the house. They will sound even better when I can fill some space with music.

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We really need a better idea on how "transportable" you want this system to be?

BTW, I also agree that the sound quality is superb with a Jubilee. It looks like you have never heard them. Where do you live?

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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If you are looking for mobile DJ equipment, the Jubs are not it.  They are hard to move and not designed to be mobile.  The upper horns are fragile and expensive.  Just not for a mobile application.

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22 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

We really need a better idea on how "transportable" you want this system to be?

BTW, I also agree that the sound quality is superb with a Jubilee. It looks like you have never heard them. Where do you live?

 

Good luck,

-Tom

I live in Tucson arizona,  the system does not need to be very transportable, I'd really only plan on taking it out a few times a year, I was thinking about building cabinets for the tops. It's primary purpose would be for home listening.  And hopefully someday a more permanent installation.  I'm still pretty young in my early 30s so the occasional transportation isn't that off putting. The total weight of my current setup is pretty similar, and it rarely gets used.

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2 hours ago, -Russian-Spy- said:

...I was thinking about building cabinets for the tops. It's primary purpose would be for home listening.  And hopefully someday a more permanent installation.  I'm still pretty young in my early 30s so the occasional transportation isn't that off putting. The total weight of my current setup is pretty similar, and it rarely gets used.

You can also get the K-402 cabinets from Klipsch in a KPT-305 module (instead of a "KPT-402-HF"), and all you have to do is change out the 8" driver for a much better 2" compression driver.  Then you don't have to build a box yourself (albeit at a higher cost of about $300/assembly).

 

However, if you do build a box or buy them with a box around the K-402, you can't reduce the height of the K-402s by releasing the front two bolts holding each horn to its base and rotating the aiming mechanism forward.  This net lowering of the K-402 has implications on the overall phase response that you can achieve with the Jubilees:

 

Shortened Jub front small.jpg

 

Right Jubilee SPL and phase response.jpg

 

The lower trace in the above plot is phase.  Note that the best hi-fi direct radiating loudspeakers have overall phase response growths of ~600-900 degrees from 20 kHz down to 200 Hz (ref. Toole), while the Jubilee in this configuration has less than 90 degrees of phase growth from 20 kHz down to 200 Hz.  This is flatter than even the Danley SH-50. The improvement in group delay is similar.  This turns out to be quite audible when combined with the full-range directivity of the Jubilee.

 

I have to say that I don't share the view that the K-402 horns are "fragile".  If you're worried about them during moves/transport, just retain the box that they come in and use those for gigs.  That costs nothing extra.

 

CRW_2193.jpg.ed74a4181d248f5135d0910f4d1c5ef9.jpg

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, WillyBob said:

off topic

do you know DJ Crate?

I don't believe so, I don't go out a whole lot anymore, most of the events here lack good taste or quality sound imo, so I pretty much stopped going.

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4 hours ago, Chris A said:

You can also get the K-402 cabinets from Klipsch in a KPT-305 module (instead of a "KPT-402-HF"), and all you have to do is change out the 8" driver for a much better 2" compression driver.  Then you don't have to build a box yourself (albeit at a higher cost of about $300/assembly).

 

However, if you do build a box or buy them with a box around the K-402, you can't reduce the height of the K-402s by releasing the front two bolts holding each horn to its base and rotating the aiming mechanism forward.  This net lowering of the K-402 has implications on the overall phase response that you can achieve with the Jubilees:

 

Shortened Jub front small.jpg

 

Right Jubilee SPL and phase response.jpg

 

The lower trace in the above plot is phase.  Note that the best hi-fi direct radiating loudspeakers have overall phase response growths of ~600-900 degrees from 20 kHz down to 200 Hz (ref. Toole), while the Jubilee in this configuration has less than 90 degrees of phase growth from 20 kHz down to 200 Hz.  This is flatter than even the Danley SH-50. The improvement in group delay is similar.  This turns out to be quite audible when combined with the full-range directivity of the Jubilee.

 

I have to say that I don't share the view that the K-402 horns are "fragile".  If you're worried about them during moves/transport, just retain the box that they come in and use those for gigs.  That costs nothing extra.

 

CRW_2193.jpg.ed74a4181d248f5135d0910f4d1c5ef9.jpg

 

Chris

Interesting, alot of the jubes I've seen on here don't have the the 402 lowered, but looking at your charts and your setup I will say I'm impressed, I can only assume your phase/time alignment takes the setup to another level. I'm still 4-6 months out before I can place an order, is Roy still the person to talk to about placing orders?  I'm considering going with a passive setup until I have a means to properly tackle a bi amped setup, happen to know a ballpark on a passive crossover for the jubes? Any idea on what the impedance would come out to on a passive setup? I'd like to see my flea watt set amplifier get a bit more attention than it has been

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You can talk to Roy if you have technical or otherwise esoteric technical questions. Otherwise, I recommend Cory (@MetropolisLakeOutfitters) for placing orders, etc.  He can also help you with other stuff. 

 

At risk of throwing water on the fire, I'm sorry to say that I don't recommend passive crossovers with Jubs.  There's just too much performance left on the table trying use them, IMO.  The only Jub passives that I've seen that are worth anything are rigma's and he's got over $3K into them (just the components) for EQing/crossing compression drivers that are now discontinued (TAD TD-4002s).  And still there's the issue of not being to handle time alignment with passives.  Even something like a miniDSP 2x4 HD in a box for $205 is a far better solution (IMO).  I also can't overemphasize having a calibrated USB microphone (~$95) to plug into a PC, Mac, or Linux box that you own to take measurements using REW...and eliminate all guesswork. 

 

Chris

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You mention moving them around a few times. While not a jubilee something like the KPT-456 is really good sounding if you can find one and is often made to be moved around. While not as good as jubes it is still better fidelity then the vast majority of listeners have ever heard.

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I have found it relatively easy to move Jubilees between venues without damage, perhaps 30 moves over 12 years all without damage. A good, wide-wheelbase two-wheel hand truck is very useful to do this safely.

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Good to know.  I've never weighed my Jub bass bins, so my information was from a sales brochure that Klipsch provided many years ago when production Jubs might have been quite a bit heavier. From that brochure's quoted weight,  I subtract 20 lbs. for the K-510, K-69-A, and baffle from the 3-way configuration (KPT-Jubilee/535) in order to arrive at a figure for the two-way home version Jubilee. 

 

Several years ago, the weight of the K-402 horns dropped 10 lbs, from 25 lbs to 15 lbs--the difference between the second and third generation K-402s. 

 

I suppose the rest of the difference is in the change from the strut-type bass bins to the shelf-type.  I didn't realize that the bass bins actually got ~30 lbs lighter when that occurred.

 

The TAD 4002s add 5 lbs over the old K-69-As, and the K-691s weigh in between the TADs and the K-69-As (P.Audio BM-D750 series I, modified).  The FaitalPRO HF20AT drivers actually weigh 7 lbs less than the K-691s.

 

Chris

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Though none of this big stuff is FUN to move around, it would seem Bill has the most experience with 30 moves.  I personally wouldn't hesitate to move them IF I had a good appliance dolly with strap.  

 

I think the real question there starts to evolve to.....  how many dings & nicks can you live with?

 

I would have to think that moving them to venues like that would likely get them nicked up more than just sitting at home.  Heck, mine have done nothing but sit in the corners of the room and my wife still managed to hit one of them with a 2x4.

 

If I was contemplating what you state, I'd probably go with black verses a nicer finish.  I don't like the black getting dinged up but it would bother me a LOT more if it were Walnut or something more pretty than the black.

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7 minutes ago, Coytee said:

...my wife still managed to hit one of them with a 2x4

 

At least it wasn't you she hit. 🤐

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So... if you hadn't ducked she wouldn't have hit the speaker?

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