Jstodda Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Hi all, I've been a user of info on here for a long time and never really contributed. I'm just gonna ask for help. Looking for more real world feedback than hypotheticals or statists. I have a set of Klipsch RF 7 III. Receiver is a Yamaha 3070. Wired preout to a Crown 1502 currently. Sub is a new Klipsch SPL 150. Crown is 300 wpc x 2. 1040 bridged at 8 ohms. I love my music loud, lots of Rock usually so strong punchy midbass is preferred. I do love how clear they can be with other genres. The RF7IIIs are efficient, but I just feel like they need more. I can run the receiver to -15 or so with gain at about 8 and get volume but I just feel like dynamics at the mid levels aren't there These are 250 RMS with a Max of 1000 and the 1502 is pushing 300 to each (theoretically). I just don't know how much is too much. I bought another 1502 on a big sale yesterday so Do I: 1. Bridge each mono and push a theoretical 1040 watts to each (seems dangerous and not even close to necessary) but would it hurt.. 2. Bridge each stereo and bi amp pushing 300 to HF and 300 LF (either vertically or horiz). 3. Sell both 1502 and just get 1 2502 for 440 wpc and call it a day. Open to any feedback. Really just want the headroom for when these things open up and looking for punchier dynamics. BTW. Fascinating reads for the last 4 hours all over this website. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Already learned alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 No theoreticals below--just facts... It appears that you're running out of loudspeakers in the midbass/lower midrange at your listening levels. The extra power that you're considering will not give you the extra snap or clarity in midrange/midbass that you're apparently looking for because the problem is the direct radiating woofers in the RF-7III cannot provide higher clarity at the listening levels that you're apparently implying. I recommend, in descending order, the following Klipsch loudspeakers that can keep up with your listening preferences (with new or used models about equivalent in sound quality): 1) Klipschorn -- fully horn loaded and crosses at 400 Hz (about tuning fork frequency) and ~5 kHz (about sibilance frequency). These require room corners or false corners. 2) La Scala - fully horn loaded and crosses at the same frequencies as the Khorn, above. The next models are hybrid direct radiator/horn-loaded midrange/tweeter designs that will have slightly less definition in the midbass and below: 3) Cornwall - hybrid direct radiating woofer/horn-loaded midrange and tweeter, crossing at ~600 Hz and 5 kHz. 4) Forte - about the same specifications as Cornwall in a smaller package. 5) Heresy - about the same specifications as Forte. All of the above could use a subwoofer, like the one you have, or even better: horn-loaded. Non-Klipsch loudspeakers: 1) Danley SH-50 2) Danley SH-60 3) Danley SH-96 4) Danley SM-96 The Danley designs are expensive, but you'll get your desired clarity and definition out of them with your current amplification and subwoofer. They also are fully horn loaded and phase coherent down to your subwoofer frequencies (about 80-100 Hz). Chris 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 What size is the space in which you listen to your music? I think there is nothing wrong with your gear (speakers and amps), but the combination doesn't suit your listening room. Could it be that it is really big? A big room demands a big speaker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, ILI said: A big room demands a big speaker... This really isn't true if the large speaker has full-range directivity, like the fully horn loaded loudspeakers mentioned above--which will sound better than any other loudspeakers in small-ish listening rooms. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Chris A said: This really isn't true if the large speaker has full-range directivity, like the fully horn loaded loudspeakers mentioned above--which will sound better than any other loudspeakers in small-ish listening rooms. Chris Of course. I had all of the Heritage line in mind when I referred to 'big speakers'. Conversely, bookshelf speakers won't fill a big room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstodda Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 It's a decent sized room. Ideally most of the system is well beyond what is needed but that fits my personality lol. At the end of the day does bridging a 1502 with 1040 watts damaged a rf7III RATED AT 250-1000 watts? I know ratings are not always spot on as are power ratings for amps. Just don't want to damage anything. Again I listen to music usually louder than most people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 LOUD ... Haha; I hear you Never had RF7's, but went through a couple of sets of Forte's. Used them in a (small) stereo room and they just did not "make it." Switched to CF-3's and they are much louder (and to me, clearer). OK; on to my "large" room. Used to have CW's and replaced them with PRO KPT-904's with 510 horns (with a Crown K1 amp ). Incredible improvement Think the only solution for you is either Jubes, or some other PRO bass bins with 510 or 402 horns. Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 22, 2019 Moderators Share Posted November 22, 2019 How much is to much ? As far as speakers, if they fit in the room it will probably work, haven't ran across a "to much" problem with them yet, and I'm not going bigger. As far as power, we use 1000wpc for the sub, it has no problem with that, it can take more power but IMO not needed. As far as power for the speakers we only use 50 WPC amps x2 biamped. It's plenty enough for anything I could use, have to love efficient speakers. 31 minutes ago, Jstodda said: At the end of the day does bridging a 1502 with 1040 watts damaged a rf7III RATED AT 250-1000 watts? I know ratings are not always spot on as are power ratings for amps. Just don't want to damage anything. As long as you don't get silly with the power your fine, (this would also hurt your ears) underpowered will cause problems much faster by pushing the amp past where it does not have a clean signal, distortion. Use a Db meter to find out what you like, if nothing else download a free one to your phone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 By your description, you seem to have run into power compression in the speakers. NO additional power will improve the situation and additional power will just melt the voice coils. Power compression occurs when the required excursion begins to be limited by the physical limits of the cone's suspension ot when the power applied heats the voice coil enough that its resistance rises limiting the power that can be passed through it. Or Both. You MIGHT solve the problem with a second pair of RF-7s, but I think you should look at the Pro or Cinema lines for a pair of speakers with more capability. Try the KI-396-SMA-II. https://www.klipsch.com/pro/permanent-installation Much more power beyond the beginning of power compression and you will smoke some drivers. God help your ears. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstodda Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, JohnA said: By your description, you seem to have run into power compression in the speakers. NO additional power will improve the situation and additional power will just melt the voice coils. Power compression occurs when the required excursion begins to be limited by the physical limits of the cone's suspension ot when the power applied heats the voice coil enough that its resistance rises limiting the power that can be passed through it. Or Both. You MIGHT solve the problem with a second pair of RF-7s, but I think you should look at the Pro or Cinema lines for a pair of speakers with more capability. Try the KI-396-SMA-II. https://www.klipsch.com/pro/permanent-installation Much more power beyond the beginning of power compression and you will smoke some drivers. God help your ears. Thanks for the honesty. To be fair I know some EQ will help I just don't wanna melt anything. I assumed the butter range for "overpowered" is probably 400 to 500 wpc. I'll probably go 2502 for 440 wpc and try some EQ and go from there. As long as they're punching the best they can I can be happy with that for now. If there is no usable headroom between 440 and 900 then I'll start research for "next" lol. Really appreciate all the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Sounds like someone needs to go klipsch Pro in a hurry..... Don't blow your nice "home speakers" that aren't made for what you want. Go buy some KI 362 IIs or KI 396 IIs from @MetropolisLakeOutfitters and try your subs with em (you will very likely need a better sub (s). You may not have enough drive on output of receiver to input of amps. Don't worry about the number. If the amps aren't clipping, it's not a problem. Now, the question is, can your speakers handle the abuse you are giving them....? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Got a store nearby where you can pick up used compact discs? If so, rifle through them and search out releases of the albums you like which were produced prior to the year 2000 or so. If the music you like didn't exist until then I'm afraid you're pretty much S.O.L. in terms of punchy dynamics (or any dynamics at all in most cases). I haven't a clue why, but the record companies seem to be all in accord with compressing the crap out of, and emasculating the bass in, their productions anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, JohnA said: You MIGHT solve the problem with a second pair of RF-7s, but I think you should look at the Pro or Cinema lines for a pair of speakers with more capability. Try the KI-396-SMA-II. https://www.klipsch.com/pro/permanent-installation Much more power beyond the beginning of power compression and you will smoke some drivers. God help your ears. Hahahahaha couldn't agee more. Get yourself a Wyred 4 Sound integrated cheap used (500 wpc) with high fidelity or other similar hifI digital amp and the proper speakers /subs and call it a day. I can sell you two KPT 884 SW subs Cheap $800 for the pair (and the mains if you want 🤣). Your system CANNOT handle what you want. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 What is the crossover point that you have the mains set at? Are you running them full range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 What Chris and John said. You're just going to end up destroying your loudspeakers. You are also destroying your hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Shiva said: What is the crossover point that you have the mains set at? Are you running them full range? Dear God, I hope not. Clipping at its fullest potential. If so, are you sure your tweeters even functioning PROPERLY? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 ... to answer your question, too much is +90dB, as it will damage your hearing and may lead to tinnitus https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/tinnitus/symptoms-causes/syc-20350156 source: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/safety-moments/noise-safety-awareness/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 1:35 PM, JohnA said: Try the KI-396-SMA-II There's a used pair in the Garage Sale section: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/187228-pair-of-ki-396-sma-ii-southbury-ct-2000/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 My $0.02 to OPs original question. You can run a bridged Crown 1502 that they say puts out 1040 watts into your RF7 IIIs. CROWN LIES ON THEIR SPECS. Again just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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