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Coytee

Ignorant capacitor question....

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1 hour ago, Alexander said:

 

Here is one:

'ESR adds DC resistance – effecting the charge/discharge rate in the circuit they are in. In other words how fast they react to change in frequency. The greater the ESR the slower the cap responds.

 

So that would allow the door to "close faster" on the sound/signal?  (it would be similar to a sharper slope in that it silences the signal before the slower one??)

 

 

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1 hour ago, carlthess40 said:

sorry to step on your post.

 

Heh....you can tapdance on it if you wish.....heaven knows I've done enough here!

 

If the capacitor fits.....you must acquit!!

 

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2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Driver variances of what?  Sensitivity, SPL, etc, etc?

 

T/S parameters 

 

Some brands and suppliers offer matching sets for a premium.

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32 minutes ago, Randyh said:

the OP really wants to know------ why  ?  do some people spend 10$ on a cap and others spend 100$ or 200$ for the same  function -

 

Well....in part.

 

Let's put it this way....  if you buy a Khorn verses a Heresy, it will be both more costly AND able to go much higher in measurable performance (louder, dynamics, distortion)  so you are getting "this and that" for the cost difference of buying the Khorn.

 

What performance differences does one get by buying a .15 cent capacitor verses the same thing that is "esoteric" and costs $100???

 

If they are the same (by specs) then what other nuances are in them that will alter what they do.....and my question is....  WHAT would be the result of what's altererd?

 

Perhaps I know so little about this (DUH!!!)  that I can't even form a reasonable question.  I do that sometimes....  just fumble around with something as I try to make sense of it in my head.

 

So, if I'm SO in the dark with my question, let's go back to the COVID thread.

 

If I'm making some sense... well, GOOD FOR ME!!

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Coytee said:

If they are the same (by specs) then what other nuances are in them that will alter what they do.....and my question is....  WHAT would be the result of what's altererd?

 

Not to trivialize the matter, but it's really too complicated a subject for a simple answer. The fact that you think in terms of a capacitor "shutting the door" on certain frequencies shows misunderstanding at a fundamental level. (Please, there is no offense intended.)

 

The analogy that comes to my mind is tires -- there are numerous design features that have nothing to do with the size of the tire. They are all important. Some are easily explained. Others are not.

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Yes, the capacitance has its fundamental roll-off breakpoint, but below that point it drops off at 6dB per octave.  400hz break?  200Hz is at -6db from that point. Even more fun, that break-point is at -3db already.

 

Crossover capacitors are such a hot topic because of what happens above the breakpoint, and how the capacitor handles that.  Like any other component in the audio chain, they have their own imprefections and distortions that will be colored over the top of the sound signals.  The higher into the audible frequency band you go, the more important this seems to be, and the more difficult it is for some capacitors to pass.  

 

And the more subjective it all becomes.

 

Ultimately, "Opinions and A$$holes".

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1 hour ago, jason str said:

 

T/S parameters 

 

Some brands and suppliers offer matching sets for a premium.

Gotcha

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it's not about what is blocked, but about what is let through.

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1.  No offense taken by me from anyone

2.  I freely admit my ignorance therefore am usually mute on these topics but I do read them and I get curious

3.  There are many technical minded people here and that's not me so I'm already at a disadvantage and it doesn't take much for me to display how little I know.

 

It's all good.

 

I appreciate the various thoughts/comments.

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Richard, 

 

Edgar has nailed it perfectly in his 2 posts.  Capacitors don't block anything but DC.  They do, in a simple high pass filter, make lower frequiencies quieter.  And tires are a wonderful analogy.  A Chung King Sport+ is round and black just like a Michelin Sport Cup 2, but you'd rather have the Michelin on the Dragon (and they might cost $700 each).

 

Some cheap caps might have holes in their metalized film and arc at higher voltage, adding a tick sound or maybe a V-shape at the peak of a waveform.  Perhaps the material separating  the conductors has a different dielectric coefficient at different frequencies yielding an uneven response curve.  Or, maybe the dielectric is weird in some other way that delays the transition of the waveform from positive to negative.  You might view that like "crossover distortion" in a Class B tube amp.  There are many other ways for one cap to damage the sound vs another, and even your wallet. But since there is no perfect device, you want one with hinges that won't tarnish, at least. 

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17 hours ago, seti said:

4uf will block the same no matter what manufacturer. Now there are caps with tolerences from 20% to 1%. The weird thing is the higher end the cap or the more boutique the higher the tolerence. Does it matter how close to the prescribed freq you are?

Not with a single capacitor making a 1st Order slope. You can be a bit sloppier with those.

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8 hours ago, Randyh said:

we live with a lot of rain and snow --Yokohama is my 1st choice -

 

I've been cooped-up for too long. When @JohnA mentioned Michelin, Cheng Shin, and The Dragon, my mind went immediately to motorcycle tires.

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I thought an ignorant capacitor was going to have a question to ask of the forum...  Where is it?

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7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Not with a single capacitor making a 1st Order slope. You can be a bit sloppier with those.

 

I think I said that wrong. A friend ordered some jupiter caps and they were 20% tolerence. That was for a boatload of money...

 

I've become a fan of using the russian oil caps and big polystyrenes in projects. They are affordable and well made.

 

1uf polystyrene 2% tolerance.

image.thumb.png.f4cd9e97816e2f0b10fda432492d56fc.png

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20 hours ago, Coytee said:

What performance differences does one get by buying a .15 cent capacitor verses the same thing that is "esoteric" and costs $100???

 

If they are the same (by specs) then what other nuances are in them that will alter what they do.....and my question is....  WHAT would be the result of what's altererd?

 

48 minutes ago, glens said:

I thought an ignorant capacitor was going to have a question to ask of the forum...  Where is it?

 

Side story....  years ago, I was presented with a new program to "create" something (HA)  The program was MS Access, a database.  I had ZERO knowledge of how it worked, how to create tables, how to link them, how to format them....  you may as well give the program to your 4 year old and challenge them to create something. 

 

So, I went to some kind of MS-Access forum to ask for some guidance on how to create a table (for example).  I was summarily ridiculed at how stupid my questions were....  so, I made the comment back to them that "it seems in order for me/someone to ask an intelligent question, they might need to already understand 50% of the answer"

 

Or some variation of that.  To me, the capacitor, chokes and various parts....  are voodoo.  I "get" what it does.  What I don't get is having the same spec item (caps in this case) but one of those caps is generic, one is "esoteric" but again, same values....  what is different?  Does one allow a cleaner bass (or trebel) signal to pass through?  Is the signal more "pure"....  in a side by side what is the end user going to experience to justify whatever his purchase is?

 

Note that I use an active so I don't really care what the answer is....  I'm simply a curious type and this popped up in my curiosity bank of questions.

 

 

 

 

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