Covid19 redux

[Travis In Austin]

I thought this was very interesting. 

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04283461

6 hours ago, RANDYH said:

Quick question , are you  positive about the MODERNA ---vaccine trials

Don't forget about this site.

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04283461

 

Check out the dates of expected completion.

[Travis In Austin]

6 hours ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

I think it was Bill Murray that said, “winning an argument with a smart person is hard while winning an argument with a stupid person is impossible.” Anyway here’s an article on misinformation and the spread thereof.

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/the-covid-19-misinformation-crisis-is-just-beginning-but-there-is-hope/

Along similar lines, but specifically addresses why people are prone to believe conspiracy theories about Covid-19.

 

[Not going to post the link, some of the independent variables are political]. But if you are interested just search for the Harvard Misinformed Journal and covid-19.]

 

"Our research shows that beliefs in two popular variants of COVID-19 conspiracy theory are the joint product of the psychological predispositions 1) to reject information coming from experts and other authority figures and 2) to view major events as the product of conspiracies, as well as partisan and ideological motivations."

 

[314carpenter]

11 hours ago, billybob said:

Things like flu vaccine s are supposed to get better with time

and experience one may like to think.

Yes bring on the article s and those numbers who die from the vaccine itself each year.

Die from the flu vaccine?

Yes there is an answer

 

1 or 2 persons per million vaccines given

 

Usually from an allergic reaction to eggs

There is an egg-free flu vaccine for this reason

 

[314carpenter]

1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

First, kill all the cats!

 

That was actually done it 14th Century Europe, it was thought they spread plague. They got rid of cats, rat populations soared, deaths spiked. (Disease is spread by fleas from rats, who knew?)

Forgot about that one. Good catch!

 

There are many lined up ready to kill all the cats.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/animals/2019/09/essay-to-save-birds-should-we-kill-off-cats

And

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife

Apparently Kitty is pretty good at killing more than just rats.

 

 

[sarasl01]

I just read an article from gatesnotes where Gates say that there are 100+ kinds of medicines or vaccines that can potentially be the cure to covid, and there are approx. 5 that are really promising. Hope that there can be more rapid development in the coming weeks. 

[tube fanatic]

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855641420/with-school-buildings-closed-children-s-mental-health-is-suffering

 

My wife, a retired Special Ed. teacher, is still in touch with the parents of many of her former students.  The issues described in the article are mild compared with what is going on in some families. 
 

 

Maynard

[pzannucci]

6 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

I thought this was very interesting. 

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04283461

Don't forget about this site.

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04283461

 

Check out the dates of expected completion.

And that is just Phase 1.  

I think we need to lock down the US until we complete 100%!!!  Kiss the world as we know it goodbye if so.

[pzannucci]

6 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Along similar lines, but specifically addresses why people are prone to believe conspiracy theories about Covid-19.

 

[Not going to post the link, some of the independent variables are political]. But if you are interested just search for the Harvard Misinformed Journal and covid-19.]

 

"Our research shows that beliefs in two popular variants of COVID-19 conspiracy theory are the joint product of the psychological predispositions 1) to reject information coming from experts and other authority figures and 2) to view major events as the product of conspiracies, as well as partisan and ideological motivations."

 

If politics didn't make everyone lie so much, then you could believe what you hear and there would be no more conspiracy theories.  That wouldn't be any fun though.

 

Now you have to play Hoover and vacuum up information from all over and stir, shake, and filter.  Very bad.

[pzannucci]

18 hours ago, Marvel said:

 

Sure... why not.

 

Every link I've tracked down says false. They funded research on a universal flu vaccine (a corona virus), and animal vaccines. Haven't found anything else (other that the other millions they have given away for all kinds of research.

 

You probably don't trust USA Today.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/27/covid-19-fact-check-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-did-not-patent-coronavirus/2919503001/

Cross referenced the EU Patent with the US patent in the article.  The US patent was 2018 and the EU patent was Nov. 19.  

Methods and such in the patent can lock down therapies so control to make money or bury the technology so nobody can use the patent without infringement.  Let's hope that the patent owners allow it's use for free vs holding the world hostage, worse yet, don't allow the use by making it prohibitive.

 

Money and control are 99% of the reasons patents are done.  I don't think this patent cures COVID, just controls one way to skin the cat.

[pzannucci]

I like the way all the charts match.  

 

Looking at FL, Worldometer has a continual death rate of approx 47 people per day for the last several days.  When you look at the COVID dashboard, residents there is a one day spike of 55 and the rest of the days are significantly lower.  Both sites are way off from each other.  I wonder what fuels conspiracy theories.

 

Another interesting tidbit is for TX, 78% of all deaths are over 65 with approx. 40% over 80.  

 

The folks that want to open up the states (or don't) need to look at this data and understand who needs to be protected and understand what should be done to open up.  Seems when you add in the asymptomatic/people with antibodies (many samples look like it is 10 times higher than the tested number)  with the percentages of working aged folks that are actually dying, hard looks and science needs to tell us how terrible it would be to get back to business.

[Bosco-d-gama]

Every critic is certain that covid19 could’ve been managed in some idyllic fashion, and they’re correct. Ironically our old nemesis Vietnam seems to have conducted a perfect response to the virus. Of course the foundation here is that the country is autocratic and measures enacted were comprehensive, unquestioned and enforced. Still the real key to their success was rapid recognition and rapid response. They had insight into China and knew that something was amiss early. They did not rely upon the WHO for information or declarations. They had complete control over their borders and anyone coming in or leaving. They reacted early not with civic wide isolation but with sector isolation. They were able to keep a close watch on any outbreak of covid19 and when one began they’d swoop in Batman style and hammer it. Anyone entering the country went on enforced isolation. With this response, the early reaction, the testing ability, this level of public control they have kept covid19 infections down to a total of 300 with no deaths. For a country of 96 millions in close proximity to ‘ground zero’ China that’s impressive.

 

The take always. 1st is that China did fail to advise. China did cover up. China did subvert the WHO. If China had done the opposite in every regard then every country would’ve been armed with the actuality of the situation and had the opportunity to react more aggressively. 2ndly had America done what Vietnam did do we’d have done much better. But America is not autocratic, we do not dictate control of our citizens or control the flow of information. We do not have command of our own borders. Worse is that if we had enacted strict measures and put our citizens under serious controls and had tamped down the virus successfully then our leadership would’ve been accused of overreacting. Covid19 is a perfect catch22, damned if you do or don’t when it comes to America. 3rdly is that the WHO failed in its primary mission big time and requires some restructuring to enhance it abilities to provide earlier warnings of such contagions. 
 

There are lessons learned. Paramount IMHO is that China is not a competent world citizen. No country can rely upon China for honesty and must treat China with well deserved skepticism. America needs to repatriate key industries away from Chinese influence.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52628283

[billybob]

Don't be killing cats!!!

[Marvel]

1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

America needs to repatriate key industries away from Chinese influence.

 

We've placed all our eggs in one basket. Having diversification in a world economy would be a start. Classic division of labor. If all follow the rules, we all win. With the large population in the US, we could make everything here, but there are some resources that would still need to come from places outside our own borders. I doubt you will find knitting mills back in business in the US, at least not on the scale they were in the past. Some industries probably could be rebuilt. It wouldn't be quick.

[pzannucci]

1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Every critic is certain that covid19 could’ve been managed in some idyllic fashion, and they’re correct. Ironically our old nemesis Vietnam seems to have conducted a perfect response to the virus. Of course the foundation here is that the country is autocratic and measures enacted were comprehensive, unquestioned and enforced. Still the real key to their success was rapid recognition and rapid response. They had insight into China and knew that something was amiss early. They did not rely upon the WHO for information or declarations. They had complete control over their borders and anyone coming in or leaving. They reacted early not with civic wide isolation but with sector isolation. They were able to keep a close watch on any outbreak of covid19 and when one began they’d swoop in Batman style and hammer it. Anyone entering the country went on enforced isolation. With this response, the early reaction, the testing ability, this level of public control they have kept covid19 infections down to a total of 300 with no deaths. For a country of 96 millions in close proximity to ‘ground zero’ China that’s impressive.

 

The take always. 1st is that China did fail to advise. China did cover up. China did subvert the WHO. If China had done the opposite in every regard then every country would’ve been armed with the actuality of the situation and had the opportunity to react more aggressively. 2ndly had America done what Vietnam did do we’d have done much better. But America is not autocratic, we do not dictate control of our citizens or control the flow of information. We do not have command of our own borders. Worse is that if we had enacted strict measures and put our citizens under serious controls and had tamped down the virus successfully then our leadership would’ve been accused of overreacting. Covid19 is a perfect catch22, damned if you do or don’t when it comes to America. 3rdly is that the WHO failed in its primary mission big time and requires some restructuring to enhance it abilities to provide earlier warnings of such contagions. 
 

There are lessons learned. Paramount IMHO is that China is not a competent world citizen. No country can rely upon China for honesty and must treat China with well deserved skepticism. America needs to repatriate key industries away from Chinese influence.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52628283

The whole problem started with and is based on your item 1.   China does not want to be part of the world brotherhood and would like to control.  This was an easy way to allow steps for that to occur if they could get on top of COVID quicker than other countries so they could come out on top.  Same reason for all the hacking.  First country to the finish line wins and controls.

 

As you said, you can't win.  Locking down as necessary would not work in the US.  There would be a revolution.

 

This really needed to be stopped at it's source, at the beginning.  No one is going to win.  This is just going to have to play itself out as in 1918.  Open up and protect yourself.  You'll die of no food or something else anyway if you don't (all the things like cancer, diabetes, heart conditions, other ailments that aren't being attended to) is going to be worse long term than COVID.  Really really dumb.

[billybob]

Think a good takeaway is Essential goods/products

should do a comeback in the

USA.

[pzannucci]

26 minutes ago, billybob said:

Think a good takeaway is Essential goods/products

should do a comeback in the

USA.

Essential should extend to services such as medical procedures.  Think of the impact of just cancer in 2020 where people are not going for diagnosis:

From the American Cancer Society - kind of dwarfs COVID and that is not even counting diabetes, heart, and other of the top 5 ailments that people are not able to get treated for... suicides and drug deaths too.  Essential means medical treatment also considering many hospitals are running significantly under capacity.

 

Estimated numbers of new cancer cases and deaths in 2020 (In 2020, there will be an estimated 1.8 million new cancer cases diagnosed and 606,520 cancer deaths in the United States.)

[billybob]

5 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Essential should extend to services such as medical procedures.  Think of the impact of just cancer in 2020 where people are not going for diagnosis:

From the American Cancer Society - kind of dwarfs COVID and that is not even counting diabetes, heart, and other of the top 5 ailments that people are not able to get treated for... suicides and drug deaths too.  Essential means medical treatment also considering many hospitals are running significantly under capacity.

 

Estimated numbers of new cancer cases and deaths in 2020 (In 2020, there will be an estimated 1.8 million new cancer cases diagnosed and 606,520 cancer deaths in the United States.)

Essential also means national security related items.

[pzannucci]

3 minutes ago, billybob said:

Essential also means national security related items.

Without a doubt 🙂

[OO1]

8 hours ago, sarasl01 said:

I just read an article from gatesnotes where Gates say that there are 100+ kinds of medicines or vaccines

there are , but they are 12-18 months away if all is well , but other countries are trying to beat us to it --winner will take all -

[billybob]

The hearing the other day is looking at the fall, early winter

for a vaccine.