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amp synergy with Cornwall IV's/Forte III's/Heresey IV's?


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On 7/11/2020 at 7:26 AM, angelaudio said:

Not trying to cause waves here but I spent and entire evening with my friend comparing a McIntosh MHA100 headphone amp to a Primaluna Evo400 on a pair of Heresy IV. See my video below. The MHA100 is just 50 watts a channel and is not even a dedicated speaker amp and even so, was really challenging comparing the two so I'm having a hard time taking in the idea that the differences between an MA252 and Primaluna Evo400 are night and day apart considering that the MA252 is even more suited for floor standing speakers like our Heresy IV's in this video. A lot of this audio stuff gets pretty blown out of proportion IMO. MA252 has twice the power than this little headphone amp, a tube preamp! and tone controls. What am I missing here? 

 

 

 

As I have stated everywhere on the Klipsch Forum I think the MA252 is a great integrated amplifier that sounded very good in my system. I loved the tone controls and the balance control along with the built in phono preamp. A beautifully built amp that looked great in my living room. The Mcintosh headphone amp you and your buddy compared the EVO 400 with probably sounded great. I have no idea what the would sound like driving my Fortes and HSU Subwoofer but i'm guessing it would also sound very good. My high opinion of the PL EVO 400 is comes from owning  both the ma 252 and the EVO 400 and listening to each one in my personal system and the synergy is just better to my ears with the PL. Doesn't mean the PL is better than the MA252 just means to my ears in my room with my speakers the PL sounds richer, warmer, bass more punchy and voices seem more present like in a live venue. I listen to a lot of genres and some fairly loud and am enjoying the Primaluna very much but I dont think any amp is the end all be all for everyone. Thats 252 is a beautiful piece of electronics

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On 7/11/2020 at 7:26 AM, angelaudio said:

Not trying to cause waves here but I spent and entire evening with my friend comparing a McIntosh MHA100 headphone amp to a Primaluna Evo400 on a pair of Heresy IV. See my video below. The MHA100 is just 50 watts a channel and is not even a dedicated speaker amp and even so, was really challenging comparing the two so I'm having a hard time taking in the idea that the differences between an MA252 and Primaluna Evo400 are night and day apart considering that the MA252 is even more suited for floor standing speakers like our Heresy IV's in this video. A lot of this audio stuff gets pretty blown out of proportion IMO. MA252 has twice the power than this little headphone amp, a tube preamp! and tone controls. What am I missing here? 

 

 

 

That is an interesting take on the MHA 100 which actually cost closer to $5000. I paid $3,500 new for my MA252 and my Integrated EVO 400 was right around $5000. I dont think the MA252 and MHA 100 have the same sound signature but I'm sure the PL and MA252 sound very different with my setup.

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  • 5 months later...

Has anyone heard the Luxman SQ-N150 with Cornwall IVs?  Looking for a sweet sounding amp that can take the edge off.  I'm driving my CWIVs with a PrimaLuna EVO300 and the sound can be somewhat bright with stock tubes.  Tried changing out the input tubes to NOS Bugle Boys and it improved, but still inconsistent.  Also intrigued by the Decware Zen Triode.

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8 hours ago, merkinman said:

Has anyone heard the Luxman SQ-N150 with Cornwall IVs?  Looking for a sweet sounding amp that can take the edge off.  I'm driving my CWIVs with a PrimaLuna EVO300 and the sound can be somewhat bright with stock tubes.  Tried changing out the input tubes to NOS Bugle Boys and it improved, but still inconsistent.  Also intrigued by the Decware Zen Triode.

 

I haven't, but the dealer in my area (AV Therapy in Nashua, NH) loves the combo.

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2 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  The best match integrated in my humble opinion is the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120. Not a powerhouse, but plenty for Klipsch speakers. 

  Lot of connectivity options, subwoofer outputs, and Room Perfect DRC. The Room Perfect is the standout. List is around 2200.00 USD. 

I'm a bit wary of class D amps, especially with horns.  Haven't heard the Lyngdorf, but it definitely has a great reputation.  My thinking is that since I have this incredibly efficient speaker, it would make sense to utilize a low power amp that may have some inherent advantages because of the low power and simplicity.

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I don't believe it's about "simplicity".  It's about the amount of negative feedback used that's much more audible on horn-loaded loudspeakers.  Well-designed horn loaded loudspeakers lack the proportionately much larger amounts of modulation distortion that direct radiating loudspeakers have--especially those that are low efficiency.  This means that you have a great deal more clarity to hear the effects of the higher order harmonics generated by class D amplifiers, which, according to the guy that wrote the article linked just above, have to use a fair amount of negative feedback.  Class D amplifiers categorically use larger amounts of negative feedback than class A and AB types. 

 

Chris

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29 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I don't believe it's about "simplicity".  It's about the amount of negative feedback used that's much more audible on horn-loaded loudspeakers.  Well-designed horn loaded loudspeakers lack the proportionately much larger amounts of modulation distortion that direct radiating loudspeakers have--especially those that are low efficiency.  This means that you have a great deal more clarity to hear the effects of the higher order harmonics generated by class D amplifiers, which, according to the guy that wrote the article linked just above, have to use a fair amount of negative feedback.  Class D amplifiers categorically use larger amounts of negative feedback than class A and AB types. 

 

Chris

Do you have any recommendations?

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Good class A or AB.  That's a lot of choices.  I would probably be remiss in not recommending something that works well if I started listing specific brands and/or models--with one notable exception: take a look at the available First Watt amplifiers [look at the last column in each row of the table for their availability new] and look at their characteristics.  Each model has a story to tell, and it's very interesting to learn about each model (there's a PDF on the First Watt site explaining each amplifier's circuitry and SS devices used).  Used First Watt amplifiers hold their value even more than McIntosh amplifiers, and are generally more reliable, requiring no maintenance other than perhaps the power supply capacitors after two-to-three decades of use if you live in a warmer climate (like Texas, etc.).

 

I also run very inexpensive used Crown D-75As (class AB...I'm currently using five of them in my setup), and they can be had for as little as $75 on ebay or craigslist.  Just make sure you get a money-back guarantee from the seller if they are anything but brand new.  They don't have quite the high end magic of the First Watt F3 I'm using...but in reality, it's extremely difficult to hear the difference...which is why I use them instead of class A room heaters.  These are 45 w/channel amplifiers, which is plenty for a Cornwall, and probably enough for a Heresy (unless you hold parties a lot).  There is a modification that a former forum member performed on these to speed up their slew rate, but I find it's really not necessary for anything but the front left and right high frequency drivers (I don't use passive crossovers, but rather bi-amp and tri-amp every loudspeaker in my 5.2 setup). 

 

I don't recommend class D at this time--until the issues with their use of high levels of feedback and their resulting higher order harmonics--are solved. 

 

If the class A or AB amplifier you're interested in gets good marks from someone that has both measured its performance and listened to it (preferably using horn-loaded loudspeakers), it's worth considering. Class AB runs as class A at lower output power--which is most of the time for efficient horn-loaded loudspeakers like the Cornwall--and with the Heresy a bit lower efficiency, requiring higher output power amplifiers to drive the woofers.

 

Chris

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On 12/18/2020 at 10:20 PM, merkinman said:

Has anyone heard the Luxman SQ-N150 with Cornwall IVs?  Looking for a sweet sounding amp that can take the edge off.  I'm driving my CWIVs with a PrimaLuna EVO300 and the sound can be somewhat bright with stock tubes.  Tried changing out the input tubes to NOS Bugle Boys and it improved, but still inconsistent.  Also intrigued by the Decware Zen Triode.

I actually ran my CW4s with that amp and it’s sounded really good. Just didn’t have the lower end that my new EVO300 has. I’m sure I’ll be changing out the power tubes for KT88s or 150s

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1 hour ago, habinger808 said:

I actually ran my CW4s with that amp and it’s sounded really good. Just didn’t have the lower end that my new EVO300 has. I’m sure I’ll be changing out the power tubes for KT88s or 150s

Are you using all stock tubes with your CW4s?  Any brightness issues?  

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It has been my experience that although the mids in the CW IV are some of the best yet, there can still be some sharpness that creeps in from time to time. I have been experimenting with placement and have banished that almost completely. I suggest you keep moving them slightly because a little bit makes a big difference with these speakers. When you get it right you will know it and you’ll have a big grin on your face.

 

Shakey

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On 12/24/2020 at 4:50 AM, Shakeydeal said:

It has been my experience that although the mids in the CW IV are some of the best yet, there can still be some sharpness that creeps in from time to time. I have been experimenting with placement and have banished that almost completely. I suggest you keep moving them slightly because a little bit makes a big difference with these speakers. When you get it right you will know it and you’ll have a big grin on your face.

 

Shakey

Did more toe out work for you?  I find there is a trade off as the imaging suffers with less toe in but the tonal balance is warmer and less harsh.  

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I have the speakers firing directly at me. If you want to try off axis cross them just in front of your listening position. You will lose some definition, but it might smooth them out some.


I have things sorted out enough that I prefer them on axis now, but that took some amp swapping as well as placement tweaking. I am extremely happy with their performance now.

 

Shakey

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12 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

I have the speakers firing directly at me. If you want to try off axis cross them just in front of your listening position. You will lose some definition, but it might smooth them out some.


I have things sorted out enough that I prefer them on axis now, but that took some amp swapping as well as placement tweaking. I am extremely happy with their performance now.

 

Shakey

I found that having them next to the side walls and facing my listening position to where the tweeter fires just over my shoulders the best for a seamless soundstage and to where they don't make themselves known.  Need to do some tube rolling or make a cable change to tone down the high frequencies just a tad.  What has me confused is that the sound is a bit inconsistent.  Sometimes I find it perfectly smooth and even and other days it tends to sound a bit bright with the same music/source.  They should be broken in by now...at least a couple of hours on them i think.

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On 12/19/2020 at 12:20 AM, merkinman said:

Has anyone heard the Luxman SQ-N150 with Cornwall IVs?  Looking for a sweet sounding amp that can take the edge off.  I'm driving my CWIVs with a PrimaLuna EVO300 and the sound can be somewhat bright with stock tubes.  Tried changing out the input tubes to NOS Bugle Boys and it improved, but still inconsistent.  Also intrigued by the Decware Zen Triode.

 

1 hour ago, merkinman said:

I found that having them next to the side walls and facing my listening position to where the tweeter fires just over my shoulders the best for a seamless soundstage and to where they don't make themselves known.  Need to do some tube rolling or make a cable change to tone down the high frequencies just a tad.  What has me confused is that the sound is a bit inconsistent.  Sometimes I find it perfectly smooth and even and other days it tends to sound a bit bright with the same music/source.  They should be broken in by now...at least a couple of hours on them i think.

 

Can you post pictures of your setup..?

 

Do you have at least some basic speaker/room reflection points attended to with acoustical treatments..?

 

The reason I ask is based on my experiences many people start swapping equipment trying to fix problems that are really early room reflection issues which should really be the first thing attended to if you have the freedom to use acoustical treatments.

 

miketn

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On 12/23/2020 at 7:05 PM, habinger808 said:

I actually ran my CW4s with that amp and it’s sounded really good. Just didn’t have the lower end that my new EVO300 has. I’m sure I’ll be changing out the power tubes for KT88s or 150s

150's ----yes Sir

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On 6/27/2020 at 2:59 AM, TorontoCanuck said:

Hey Everybody,  I'm a noob,  Canadian, lurking and reading threads for a couple of months now.

 

Great forum you guys have here!

 

I've recently decided to get a pair of current gen heritage models to use in a 2 channel setup, I have a pair of JL Audio Fathoms on standby to use as required with the speakers.

 

My request for the time being though is amplifier related.

 

I'm seeking an integrated amp to synergize with any of the current gen heritage models in my thread title. 

 

I can utilize any of those speakers in my setup and I like them all so the priority is finding that holy grail amp

 

I would like to get as close as possible to a one and done amp purchase although I'm open to getting both a solid state and tube amp for a proper comparison

I have a matched quad set of still new  Psvane EL34PH's on standby duty

 

Budget is 5k range, new or used

 

For all owners of these models, are you using an amp that you would consider a holy grail match?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recommend you to look at Fezz Audio, amazing value for price. Look about Mira Ceti 300B.

Remember that in relation to speaker efficiency, the less the power, the more the accurate sound..

Edited by Alex Defender
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