billybob Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, USNRET said: If I were to gen one up it would be a splitter on the output hose with a flapper / one way check valve that allowed flow in one direction only in each hose downstream of the splitter. Yes, seems like a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, Randyh said: no - it's a terrible idea -they need to make more equipment ------subito presto Yes, this is just one guy, think main Doctor there, just giving BTW, info. Guess it would save life in a pinch emergency. Ventilators being made quickly have been stated by more than one official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 5:36 PM, NADman said: Not quite true, unless you call beer, liquor, pot?POT!, auto parts stores and many more essential. Sorry, your post is now 18 hrs. old. I'm going with what Ford in Ontario announced today. Seems like everything is essential. When the Premier of Ontario was asked by the press why drugs and alcohol sales were not closed his response was unsettling: “Ontario mental health experts strongly advised against it!” The next item on the news channel was how northern France is considering a complete ban on alcohol sales because domestic violence went through the roof! I think the reality, at least in Canada, is the RIDICULOUS amount of tax collected on these items (well, everything really) would be sorely missed to cover the “bailouts”... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, geoff. said: When the Premier of Ontario was asked by the press why drugs and alcohol sales were not closed his response was unsettling: “Ontario mental health experts strongly advised against it!” Unsettling? It's freaking genius. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 20 minutes ago, billybob said: Yes, this is just one guy, think main Doctor there, just giving BTW, info. Guess it would save life in a pinch emergency. Ventilators being made quickly have been stated by more than one official. Going a little bit farther, guess that this was not just a whim if the moment, some ill-used idea. Being ignorant about the product, guess one(?) Or more makers could offer a model certified for use of, by 2 patients. Just saying... Guess, may want to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco-d-gama Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Mechanical ventilators have the capacity to deliver large volumes which can be split to support 2 patients but there are limits to what the machine can do for those patients as not all of the machine functions can be used in this configuration. The flow is unidirectional on both phases so each patient is afforded their needs safely and without rebreathing or cross contamination. But the patients will need to be of similar size and have similar ventilation and oxygenation requirements. When used this way the patient ‘use’ mode is restricted to controlled ventilation only, meaning that both get exactly the same settings and neither can ‘trigger’ the machine nor can they breathe additionally on their own. In short this is only useful for 2 very compromised patients with similar support needs and who would likely be kept heavily sedated and perhaps paralyzed. And the data often gathered to monitor patient progress cannot be captured. The systems air dynamics and compliance values reflect the sum of both patients and cannot be separated. They would each require close monitoring to determine if they are getting better or worse and how those changes may be impacting their ‘ventilator partner’. Not an ideal situation. Last ditch alternatives for a select set of patients. Ventilator circuits are sequestered by filtration systems so they’re considered ‘clean’ per se as any contamination would come from the patients own flora. Circuits are replaced at least once daily. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said: Mechanical ventilators have the capacity to deliver large volumes which can be split to support 2 patients but there are limits to what the machine can do for those patients as not all of the machine functions can be used in this configuration. The flow is unidirectional on both phases so each patient is afforded their needs safely and without rebreathing or cross contamination. But the patients will need to be of similar size and have similar ventilation and oxygenation requirements. When used this way the patient ‘use’ mode is restricted to controlled ventilation only, meaning that both get exactly the same settings and neither can ‘trigger’ the machine nor can they breathe additionally on their own. In short this is only useful for 2 very compromised patients with similar support needs and who would likely be kept heavily sedated and perhaps paralyzed. And the data often gathered to monitor patient progress cannot be captured. The systems air dynamics and compliance values reflect the sum of both patients and cannot be separated. They would each require close monitoring to determine if they are getting better or worse and how those changes may be impacting their ‘ventilator partner’. Not an ideal situation. Last ditch alternatives for a select set of patients. Ventilator circuits are sequestered by filtration systems so they’re considered ‘clean’ per se as any contamination would come from the patients own flora. Circuits are replaced at least once daily. Thanks...😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said: Italy has 74,386 cases and 7,503 deaths. The US has 60,115 cases and 841 deaths (from another site). Does anyone think the virus is not as deadly to Americans? This is why I say you have to take the numbers with caution. Anyone care to speculate on why the drastic difference? 1 - Just got back so I'm playing catch up.... or is it ketchup? 6 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said: No, it's that italy wasn't ready. Social distancing wasn't in place and now here are the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 How Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: 1 - Just got back so I'm playing catch up.... or is it ketchup? No, it's that italy wasn't ready. Social distancing wasn't in place and now here are the results. Italy’s death percentage due to far more elderly infected compared to US? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Randyh said: we all did, filters have no impact at all - Wonder what it would matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 48 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said: Mechanical ventilators have the capacity to deliver large volumes which can be split to support 2 patients but there are limits to what the machine can do for those patients as not all of the machine functions can be used in this configuration. The flow is unidirectional on both phases so each patient is afforded their needs safely and without rebreathing or cross contamination. But the patients will need to be of similar size and have similar ventilation and oxygenation requirements. When used this way the patient ‘use’ mode is restricted to controlled ventilation only, meaning that both get exactly the same settings and neither can ‘trigger’ the machine nor can they breathe additionally on their own. In short this is only useful for 2 very compromised patients with similar support needs and who would likely be kept heavily sedated and perhaps paralyzed. And the data often gathered to monitor patient progress cannot be captured. The systems air dynamics and compliance values reflect the sum of both patients and cannot be separated. They would each require close monitoring to determine if they are getting better or worse and how those changes may be impacting their ‘ventilator partner’. Not an ideal situation. Last ditch alternatives for a select set of patients. Ventilator circuits are sequestered by filtration systems so they’re considered ‘clean’ per se as any contamination would come from the patients own flora. Circuits are replaced at least once daily. Something that makes sense, good job. May I equate this to 2 people on one CPAP where one needs a setting of 3 and the other requires an 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I see medical personnel, hospitals, mayors, governors, etc begging the federal government for ventilators, masks and shields. I would think that if there was a supply that the items would be arriving shortly. If there is not a supply in storage what can be done that has not already be done; increasing production as fast as possible. As an aside where does the buck stop? Local at office / hospital? City? County? State? Fed? Everyone screams for states' rights and independence from federal mandates but when the feces hits the rotating oscillator.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Randyh said: http://emag.medicalexpo.com/covid-19-development-of-high-tech-protective-masks/ Thanks for the link. Developing or producing. How long to filling the shelves? Reusable at $20-30 a piece seems reasonable base on what we pay for the one time use ones we get from DOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Randyh said: https://www.barrons.com/articles/ford-to-make-ventilators-respirators-face-masks-for-covid-19-response-51585059429 I read about the seat fan ventilators a couple of days ago. I am sure that in time it can arrive but sure seems like the engineers once again don't have a clue about use. Yepper this will work but its so heavy / big I can't carry it. See that all the time in aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco-d-gama Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, USNRET said: Something that makes sense, good job. May I equate this to 2 people on one CPAP where one needs a setting of 3 and the other requires an 8? Thanks. I do not believe you could run a cpap machine at separate levels tailored to 2 users. At best they’d both have to employ the exact same settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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