Corona Virus Disease/(SARS-CoV-2) II

[dtel's wife]

Encouragingly NYC is reporting that fewer of its inpatients are requiring intubation. They seem to be curbing the severity of the disease in a general sense. Ironically governor Cuomo has restricted the use of chloroquine drugs to inpatients. 
 
There is more than one path to defining medical treatment. Fundamentally when urgency matters strict research protocols can be sidestepped as long as it can be done safely. No harm - no foul. Chloroquine is not voodoo. It is a long-standing drug that medicine has used safely for 1/2 century. 
 
Does it work? Well we do have a gauge - the media. The media is trigger happy, anxious to find and trumpet any story to discredit the federal government. If chloroquine definitely did not work we’d have 4 inch headlines proclaiming its failure. We do not see those. In fact currently what we have is nominal reporting and some of that is actually encouraging.
 
So if you have covid19, breathing 40 times a minute and still not oxygenating while on 100% oxygen then you decide for yourself whether trialing a safe experimental drug cocktail will save your life. As for myself - i won’t wait that long. We can complete the academic studies when the emergency is over. BTW there are many drugs being used in exactly the same manner as chloroquine. Chloroquine is only controversial be because of politics. It would seem likely that naysayers here would embrace chloroquine if it came to light from a different source. Politics indeed.

Very well stated!


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[billybob]

Think that is the gist of it.

 

[dtel's wife]

Encouragingly NYC is reporting that fewer of its inpatients are requiring intubation. They seem to be curbing the severity of the disease in a general sense. Ironically governor Cuomo has restricted the use of chloroquine drugs to inpatients. 
 
There is more than one path to defining medical treatment. Fundamentally when urgency matters strict research protocols can be sidestepped as long as it can be done safely. No harm - no foul. Chloroquine is not voodoo. It is a long-standing drug that medicine has used safely for 1/2 century. 
 
Does it work? Well we do have a gauge - the media. The media is trigger happy, anxious to find and trumpet any story to discredit the federal government. If chloroquine definitely did not work we’d have 4 inch headlines proclaiming its failure. We do not see those. In fact currently what we have is nominal reporting and some of that is actually encouraging.
 
So if you have covid19, breathing 40 times a minute and still not oxygenating while on 100% oxygen then you decide for yourself whether trialing a safe experimental drug cocktail will save your life. As for myself - i won’t wait that long. We can complete the academic studies when the emergency is over. BTW there are many drugs being used in exactly the same manner as chloroquine. Chloroquine is only controversial be because of politics. It would seem likely that naysayers here would embrace chloroquine if it came to light from a different source. Politics indeed.

So chloroquine can be used on an out patient basis in New York? [mention]Bosco-d-gama [/mention]


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[oldtimer]

There is dissent within the top branch on the promotion of the drug.  The programmed ones are the ones making it out to be an all out scene of one versus the other.  Programming is what is pushing beliefs one way or the other to be in the forefront of what should be a medical science issue.  Programming is the source of any so called hatred one way or another.  It seems clear to this point that the therapy may help some, but does not help all.  Why should that be controversial?  Correct me if i am wrong, but lots of medicine works that way, with some therapies being more effective than others depending upon the individual.  There is no panacea for this virus yet, the heroes are the ones on the front lines trying their best to help people, and their tenet begins with first do no harm.  There are no real heroes anywhere else, except the majority of all of us doing our best to prevent greater contraction and spread of it.

[Marvel]

The French "study" wasn't a controlled group, and they dropped one or two who died. One of the researchers who did the "study", was the publisher of the journal which published the "peer review".

 

It's all still anecdotal evidence. 

 

(still glad that Rudy is home... okay?)

[Fish]

9 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

The latest French study, which looked at the study the President referred to, says Hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics is of no effect.

 

"However, a study just published in a French medical journal provides new evidence that hydroxychloroquine does not appear to help the immune system clear the coronavirus from the body. The study comes on the heels of two others – one in France and one in China – that reported some benefits in the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for COVID-19 patients who didn’t have severe symptoms of the virus."

 

Science indeed.

 

Which is why our number one physician/scientist wants to wait for the gold standard, randomized studies with placebo.

 

The first French study was on people with "mild" symptoms.

 

The side effects of hydroxychloroquine are potentially deadly, you need to be on an ECG and closely monitored in a hospital. If you are a heart patient you might not be suitable. 

 

Here.is the latest study.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub

 

 

I have read the science, seen the results, they can publish till they die, not changing my mind.......The FACT IS , this drug along with combinations can allow cells to refuse virus replication, long enough for your system to mount an attack. It may not every time, every person and it's NOT A CURE. It's a proven scientific FACT it (as combination)  helps protect cells from infection and rapid replication. Hopefully you'll never need to refuse it but you'll have that option if you want.......

[richieb]

1 hour ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

That was my thought too. Sad that, if they are needed or will be needed, that politics would play a part in it.   

You know that each and every comment, decision, raised eyebrow, finger point, etc. is given a political take, no matter the subject, no matter the consequence or severity of the problem. I believe since around 2016 or so - give or take a month or two

[billybob]

35 minutes ago, dtel's wife said:

So chloroquine can be used on an out patient basis in New York? [mention]Bosco-d-gama [/mention]


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No is my understanding of his post.

[billybob]

Yes, this is not a political issue. If you read or listen to media, it is. Alot of handwringing going on to distract, deflect, the conversation about past mistakes and recriminations. Plenty of time for that later. The focus should be to block out this exterraneous BS and get with the science of this outbreak. Plenty of time for bloodletting later. Know that the purists have their doubts. Have come to the conclusion at the moment anyway, that barring any final data, I would take the Cocktail in a New York second if prescribed. Too much back and forth on masks. Plan on wearing one of some protection. This information to wear one in the 2 doctor videos here.

[oldtimer]

22 minutes ago, billybob said:

No is my understanding of his post.

Not exactly.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/new-york-test-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-coronavirus-136047

 

Let's all keep up the demonizing, as fits our preconceptions...

[billybob]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Not exactly.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/new-york-test-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-coronavirus-136047

Gladly stand corrected... thanks

[DeanG Crossovers]

If it doesn't present any further danger to the patient, then why not try it -- because it sure beats the alternative.

 

Half the drugs I ever did for various issues were off-label. 

[DeanG Crossovers]

Anyone following this craziness?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692156/

 

"A critical determinant of the infection risk posed by a deposited pathogen will be the organism’s ability to survive on a surface. Many pathogens, including Shigella, E coli, C difficile, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus, and norovirus can survive on surfaces for weeks or even months. These pathogens can also be present in vomit or stools of infected persons."

[oldtimer]

if you want to stir up a real hornet's nest try suggesting that people change their toilets...

[billybob]

17 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Not exactly.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/new-york-test-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-coronavirus-136047

 

Let's all keep up the demonizing, as fits our preconceptions...

Pop up keeping me from reading the content.

Does it say outpatients are being prescribed the cocktail in NYC ? thanks

[oldtimer]

Dated march 23...says the state is set to begin clinical trials...announced by the devil himself.

[JJkizak]

I still think it was ridiculous to tell people not to touch their face.  How do you stop an autonomous nerve response? I added mine up and it was over a thousand in 24 hours.

JJK

 

[oldtimer]

More evil, depending upon your selected programming...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-potential-coronavirus-vaccine-funded-by-bill-gates-is-set-to-begin-testing-in-people-with-the-first-patient-expected-to-get-it-today/ar-BB12e01f?ocid=spartanntp

[billybob]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Dated march 23...says the state is set to begin clinical trials...announced by the devil himself.

So no outpatient prescribed the drug cocktail in NYC. Already knew about the trials.

[oldtimer]

Just now, billybob said:

So no outpatient prescribed the drug cocktail in NYC. Already knew about the trials.

So you are saying the trials do not involve outpatients?  Tell me more bout all the details then please.