Amp pairing recs for Chorus II

[Don A]

33 minutes ago, veloceleste said:

 A small, square room presents placement challenges. I am a previous Chorus II owner and liked them a lot. Is it possible in your room to place the speakers on adjacent walls with your listening position opposite the speakers? This may give you some imaging width beyond the sides of the speakers and as well as some image depth. I aimed my CH2’s so they crossed just in front of my nose. Every room is different and inches or even fractions of inches can make a difference. Keep experimenting, it’s worth it! Good luck!

Are you referring to placing them on opposite sides of a corner and placing my listening position in the opposite corner? I haven't considered this, but I don't think it's possible with the room layout.

[OO1]

............

[veloceleste]

.

[winglet]

20 hours ago, Don A said:

I appreciate all of the replies. I am going from a pair of KG4s to Chorus IIs. Small room (12x12). Crappy receiver (Yamaha HTR-5240). Equilateral triangle with 10' sides. The soundstage of the Chorus II is seriously lacking, and I felt that way since I heard them from the house I bought them where the person was running a Parasound amp. I have A/B'd the KG4s and the Chorus IIs, and it's not close - the KG4s hit me in the ears, the Chorus IIs hit about 10' in front of me, directly in between the two speakers. I'm working on placement and room conditioning. Working to upgrade to an Adcom amp. Does anyone have any input on what could cause this discrepancy? The Chorus IIs are all original. They have great bass, fuller sound, just not engulfing me like the KG4s are.

Soundstage was lacking in the previous owner’s house as well?

 

May want to start with recapping the crossovers and ensuring that all the drivers are hooked up correctly.

 

If the kg4 sing and the chorus don’t, I’d suspect the speakers and/or the room is the cause before the amp is.

[Don A]

9 minutes ago, winglet said:

Soundstage was lacking in the previous owner’s house as well?

 

May want to start with recapping the crossovers and ensuring that all the drivers are hooked up correctly.

 

If the kg4 sing and the chorus don’t, I’d suspect the speakers and/or the room is the cause before the amp is.

I’ve been curious if crossovers could be the culprit. Best to send to Crites or seek out someone locally?

[winglet]

9 minutes ago, Don A said:

I’ve been curious if crossovers could be the culprit. Best to send to Crites or seek out someone locally?

Have to ask that question elsewhere or risk your thread being disappeared…

 

@Deang is authorized by klipsch to replace the caps in your crossovers with the tecate caps that klipsch recommends.  JEM is a source for those caps if you want to do the work yourself

[geoff.]

7 hours ago, Sam S. said:

Can someone explain why chorus ii amp recommendations are always super high powered amps, while they are 101 (according to the spec sheet) db efficient, while something like a forte IV (99 db) often recommended lower powered tubes. What explains the difference? 

 

in a word, headroom

 

in two words, dynamic power

 

in my limited experience, the woofer ALWAYS knows what to do with the watts and it ALWAYS results in tighter, cleaner bass that makes the -3dB point shine

 

even -10dB bass in a 101dB efficient speaker is 91dB!

 

…no sub needed

 

 

[chuckears]

5 hours ago, Don A said:

There's a McCormack DNA-1 Revision A locally for $1300. Don't know much about them, not sure if this is a good price.

 

Why are Crowns so cheap and recommended less than other amps? Is it because they're not very attractive and rack mountable?

That’s a very good price for a Rev. A DNA-1 - I’ve had two of the Deluxe models, but the “A” is on a whole other level.

Crown amps are pro-series - widely used for performance purposes or as subwoofer amps for passive subs. I connected one I had (for the latter purpose) to my Fortes to try it out, and I remember being unimpressed with the SQ.

[chuckears]

22 minutes ago, geoff. said:

 

in a word, headroom

 

in two words, dynamic power

 

in my limited experience, the woofer ALWAYS knows what to do with the watts and it ALWAYS results in tighter, cleaner bass that makes the -3dB point shine

 

even -10dB bass in a 101dB efficient speaker is 91dB!

 

…no sub needed

 

 

There is a “bottom octave” in a lot of recordings that the Chorus - and even the Forte, which somehow digs a little deeper than its bigger brother - cannot physically reproduce.  It pops up in some surprising pieces, too. 
Peter Gabriel’s “That Voice Again” has a low note repeated often in the verses that you only get the upper harmonics from if you are sub-less.  Mary Chapin-Carpenter’s “Grand Central Station” has a sustained bass note near the beginning then again near the end that you need a sub to get the full kick from.  Sarah McLachlan has notes throughout her album “Surfacing” that a Forte or Chorus, even pushed by a high headroom powerhouse amp, simply does not reproduce.  These are only three albums I listen to frequently, and I’m sure there are dozens, hundreds, probably thousands of recordings with material below the low-upper 30’s Hz range of the two speakers I’ve mentioned.
I don't listen to a lot of pipe organ music, but there is a LOT of material in the lowest registers that, once again, most "full-range" speakers on their own simply cannot reproduce. Don't even get me started on Electronic music... there's some crazy low stuff packed into a lot of those recordings.  I was listening to one just this evening, recommended by someone on another forum - "Point" by Yello, that is available in Dolby Atmos on Apple Music, and it was very sub-bass heavy.

Also, there are room resonances in good, live recordings that sound more visceral and real when a sub - or preferably, subs - are properly set up to complement even these great speakers.

[Sam S.]

10 hours ago, geoff. said:

 

in a word, headroom

 

in two words, dynamic power

 

in my limited experience, the woofer ALWAYS knows what to do with the watts and it ALWAYS results in tighter, cleaner bass that makes the -3dB point shine

 

even -10dB bass in a 101dB efficient speaker is 91dB!

 

…no sub needed

 

 

Rarely do I see amp recommendations in the forte line that exceed 10-20wpc, and often recommendations are low powered set or push/pull amps. But for chorus line the recommendations are often solid state 90 wpc and up, to “make them sing”. So my question is what is so different in the chorus line (101db efficiency) from the forte line (98 db efficiency). Not sure “more headroom” is the answer. Wouldn’t that also be true for forte, Cornwall, lascala?

[the real Duke Spinner]

I have never run less than 110wpc for anything, even my desktop JBL Control 1 monitorsit is about instantaneous available power

 

[Bubba_Buoy]

Why more power?  The experts here could chime in with way more experience than I have.  But, I find the sensitivity/efficiency estimates of the Chorus 2 to be higher than real world behavior.  If I had to guess, I'd say it's something to do with the woofer in them.  While researching them, I found quite a few posts about how the woofer comes from the pro/PA side of the Klipsch business as opposed to the home audio side. (I realize there isn't much difference, just saying...)  They seem to prefer more wattage to really "motivate" or energize them.  I think the damping factor of SS amps, combined with the RELATIVELY less efficient woofer, makes a high powered amp more advantageous in the Chorus 2 than the woofer(s) in the Forte and/or Cornwalls would seem to require.   Again, please take this from a newbie, with the appropriate grain of salt.

[OO1]

the Chorus series K-48 can handle 200  watts quite easily 

[CWOReilly]

37 minutes ago, Bubba_Buoy said:

Why more power?  The experts here could chime in with way more experience than I have.  But, I find the sensitivity/efficiency estimates of the Chorus 2 to be higher than real world behavior.  If I had to guess, I'd say it's something to do with the woofer in them.  While researching them, I found quite a few posts about how the woofer comes from the pro/PA side of the Klipsch business as opposed to the home audio side. (I realize there isn't much difference, just saying...)  They seem to prefer more wattage to really "motivate" or energize them.  I think the damping factor of SS amps, combined with the RELATIVELY less efficient woofer, makes a high powered amp more advantageous in the Chorus 2 than the woofer(s) in the Forte and/or Cornwalls would seem to require.   Again, please take this from a newbie, with the appropriate grain of salt.

The rear firing passive requires the woofer to be highly motivated. With lower wattage amps they just have very little oomph. 

[Emile]

Suggest you look for a Crown K1 or K2.  Had a Marantz 2256B (about 60wpc) on my Pro KPT-904's (w/JBL horns) and wasn't quite satisfied. Switched to an A-S1200 (90wpc ?) and it was a nice improvement. Then, switched to a Crown K1 (350wpc; you need a pre-amp with this) and the result was "night and day."  

[OO1]

3 hours ago, CWOReilly said:

very little oomph. 

 and flabby bass   .

[stormin]

4 hours ago, OO1 said:

the Chorus series  K-48 can handle   200  watts  quite easily 

Understatement of the day!

 

That K-48 just can't seem to get enough.

 

 

[Marvel]

10 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

I have never run less than 110wpc for anything, even my desktop JBL Control 1 monitorsit is about instantaneous available power

 

I ise some JBL Control 25s for our TV audio, with a 75 wpc amp. Excellent imaging and surprising amount of low end even though only rated to 80Hz. I've got Heresy IIs next to them but only use them for music. I could change it up, but it's just the way I have things wired.

[Don A]

I have available to me locally a McCormack DNA-1 Rev A, a Krell Vanguard Integrated (non-digital) for a little more $, & a Cayin A50t for a lot less $. I’m leaning toward the McCormack but wondering if the Krell is a better option. Anyone have any input? Is the age of the McCormack something to be concerned about? Ruled out the Adcom I was considering before and leaning toward high power based on a lot of feedback from here. Btw sent the Chorus crossovers to @Deang

[chuckears]

56 minutes ago, Don A said:

I have available to me locally a McCormack DNA-1 Rev A, a Krell Vanguard Integrated (non-digital) for a little more $, & a Cayin A50t for a lot less $. I’m leaning toward the McCormack but wondering if the Krell is a better option. Anyone have any input? Is the age of the McCormack something to be concerned about? Ruled out the Adcom I was considering before and leaning toward high power based on a lot of feedback from here. Btw sent the Chorus crossovers to @Deang

The Rev A means that the unit was sent to the Steve McCormack at SMc Audio to be re-built; depending upon the year that was undertaken - and there is usually documentation of it if not external, then inside the chassis - you should be good to go for some time.  I have a stock DNA-1 from the mid-90's that still sounds wonderful.