babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 So all I need is money...Ok thanks 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Can pics be annotated? Who's who? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Does it sound different depending on whether one is sittng where the Sonex is still intact as opposed to rotted and missing and all that is left is plywood behind you? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantic Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, ThomBoh said: So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps? Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense. Also, will AL5/AK6 owners be able to upgrade the active DSP xover, or only be able to upgrade the horns and drivers? There are very good Class D amps available for under $250 each. You could use inexpensive amps to drive the woofers, a nice amp for the mods and more affordable amps for the tweeters. You could capably Tri-amp for well under $1200 or less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Nice posting Mike. Really wish I was there. See you all next time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, ThomBoh said: So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps? Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense. Also, will AL5/AK6 owners be able to upgrade the active DSP xover, or only be able to upgrade the horns and drivers? Yes, for the active DSP crossover configuration, you will need six channels of amplification. This can be in either multiple chassis (like three stereo amp) or a single chassis (like a six-channel amp as @jjptkd suggested). I can't speculate whether the DSP will add a "significant" amount to the price or not. We'll have to wait and see. I'm sure whatever it is will be worth it for the very significant improvement in the sound quality. The improvement is not subtle. I assume any upgrade kit would include at minimum the DSP, the K-406 horn, the KT-1133 driver and external phase plug, and perhaps a new input panel with three sets of binding posts. I think the DSP would be required as I can't imagine the new mid horn/driver would work with the existing AL5/AK6 crossover networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Does Klipsch DSP quantize@ 24 bit 48kHz or 96kHz? Or something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnort Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 How do you adjust the volume with three amplifiers to get the right balance from the three separate drivers? Will I be able to upgrade a pair of 1972 Khorns? Three amps -- plus maybe a subwoofer amp. I don't suppose high quality tube amps and expensive tubes would be cheaper if they only had to cover the narrower spectral range of each driver. I suppose there's no end in sight--I ducked going from mono to stereo until 1972. Maybe in my 90s I'll go the triple-amp route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, pnort said: [b]How do you adjust the volume with three amplifiers to get the right balance from the three separate drivers? [/b] Will I be able to upgrade a pair of 1972 Khorns? Three amps -- plus maybe a subwoofer amp. I don't suppose high quality tube amps and expensive tubes would be cheaper if they only had to cover the narrower spectral range of each driver. I suppose there's no end in sight--I ducked going from mono to stereo until 1972. Maybe in my 90s I'll go the triple-amp route. I believe that is the DSP's job. But I could be very wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 47 minutes ago, geezin' said: I believe that is the DSP's job. But I could be very wrong. Or gain(volume) controls on separate amps or both. Or individual input and output channels on a mixer. Many ways to skin this cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, pnort said: How do you adjust the volume with three amplifiers to get the right balance from the three separate drivers? The volume control can be implemented as a multichannel analog attenuator, after the crossover, or in the mathematics of DSP crossover itself. In theory, analog volume controls are superior to digital volume controls. Analog controls reduce the noise level along with the signal level. Digital volume controls reduce the signal level but the noise floor remains the same (and then, only if the signal is properly dithered after attenuation). In practice, as long as the noise floor of the DAC is below the noise floor of the listening room (or of the other electronics), it is a non-issue. And with modern DACs, this is fairly easy to achieve. In addition, digital volume controls are superior in terms of channel tracking and attenuation accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 On 3/11/2024 at 1:55 PM, jjptkd said: All you need is 6 channels of amplification, I don't see why you couldn't accomplish this with a single 6 or 7 channel amplifier. McIntosh mc7106 comes to mind, but I am sure there are many class d amps that will fit the bill. Here is an example of fine 6 channel amp from Parasound with 6 channels at 80 watts operating in class A/AB. https://www.ebay.com/itm/355523573667?itmmeta=01HRT20ATY82AVAZ9GA5JTDW5Y&hash=item52c6db37a3:g:4McAAOSw5Utl6f2G&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwB0hw7GIUy6s%2FG1uBdctQaPpKdWItjdoQxoeGeUbc45fUG%2FIPaN8cuH0EZWdBxYNNAgfnqYXx1mZAoTe1gy9YsBvRjpcFE5eB2r67%2BY3zY5bbogmkpW%2F36yFJo8QtYXv0ywcpgAj5fHCjJ9lZtBLah5iBW1zbYNp3X%2B5RM%2FTVsuVyWPDpoHqqkTcutJgKExbo340uJVom40FrKVC2CKFKMiUdKHmfVqIZBLAjTR2UXysdbGXCfMJDYpIyR9D01M0RA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9KtgcLGYw Bottom line, this can be achieved many ways at a low cost. On 3/11/2024 at 1:33 PM, ThomBoh said: Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense. As someone has mentioned, this ain't your grandpa's Lascala. I think there are a lot of those that are willing to pay to achieve audio nirvana, just look at the HJ sales. There are a lot of us already using multiple amps for bi amp/tri amping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 ok how do I look at HJ sales? Anybody in So Cal got a pair I can hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, babadono said: ok how do I look at HJ sales? Anybody in So Cal got a pair I can hear? I'm not saying they're flying off the shelves, but for the price of those things, they have sold more than most ever thought they would. Maybe it's time to start another one of those threads that @Coytee had going, it listed all the UG Jubilee owners, their location and if they'd offer demos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 34 minutes ago, Edgar said: Digital volume controls reduce the signal level but the noise floor remains the same (and then, only if the signal is properly dithered after attenuation). My digital mixer (3rd gen) is amazingly pretty good at adding gain with little or no added noise at least to my ears. My older gen 1 not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 10 hours ago, gigantic said: interesting. I'm curious to see the Frequency/Phase and impulse responses on them. It's impressive that Roy has managed to get them down to 45Hz without porting. This pic looks like there is a hole to the bass bin from the top hat, and a round hole in the back for a passive radiator, i.e., port. It would be nice to know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 u r a sleuth my man...DJK mod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, pnort said: How do you adjust the volume with three amplifiers to get the right balance from the three separate drivers? Will I be able to upgrade a pair of 1972 Khorns? Three amps -- plus maybe a subwoofer amp. I don't suppose high quality tube amps and expensive tubes would be cheaper if they only had to cover the narrower spectral range of each driver. I suppose there's no end in sight--I ducked going from mono to stereo until 1972. Maybe in my 90s I'll go the triple-amp route. The volume adjustment is done with the volume control of the preamp/processor as usual. The preamp out then goes to the DSP, which divides the frequency spectrum in three outputs per channel. These outputs then go to the different amp channels. The DSP will have gain controls to allow adjustment if amplifiers with different gains are used, for example, if you were to use a tube amp for HF and solid-state amps for MF and LF. If you are using all identical amps all around, then the gain controls all get set the same. This is how the current Heritage Jubilee operates, except you only need two amp channels per speaker. https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/7875531269908-Jubilee-Active-Crossover-Controls-Inputs-and-Outputs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 56 minutes ago, Marvel said: This pic looks like there is a hole to the bass bin from the top hat, and a round hole in the back for a passive radiator, i.e., port. It would be nice to know. These prototypes are using standard AL5 cabinets. That bottom hole is just for the wire from the bass bin to come through to go to the crossover, which is in the top cabinet on the AL5. The terminal cup on top of the bass bin is right below that hole. The round hole in the back is there because with the old, really long K-401 horn, the midrange driver does not fit within the top hat. The driver sticks into that hole. I imagine that the rear hole will be eliminated in the new version. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, babadono said: Does Klipsch DSP quantize@ 24 bit 48kHz or 96kHz? Or something different? I asked Roy about this when the Jubilee came out, but I forget the answer except that I do remember that it exceeded the 24/96 of the Xilica. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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