ChrisSkelton Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 No disrespect meant to Tanya, but are we getting a bit star struck here? we have, obviously!!!, so many real experts in this forum, that getting a 'oh, wow! She's famous' response is....well, not very constructive (and old NAD gear etc.? Not exactly the hi-est of fi?) A bit like a review of K-horns i read recently where the reviewer 'toed in' the horns more....thus losing the tightness of the bass, i'd guess? But that's another topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 that is the most delayed response post ever, 1 year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 ---------------- On 7/28/2004 6:31:41 AM ChrisSkelton wrote: No disrespect meant to Tanya, but are we getting a bit star struck here? we have, obviously!!!, so many real experts in this forum, that getting a 'oh, wow! She's famous' response is....well, not very constructive (and old NAD gear etc.? Not exactly the hi-est of fi?) A bit like a review of K-horns i read recently where the reviewer 'toed in' the horns more....thus losing the tightness of the bass, i'd guess? But that's another topic! ---------------- ---------------- On 7/28/2004 9:27:35 AM sunnysal wrote: that is the most delayed response post ever, 1 year! ---------------- LOL, here's another. That makes this the most delayed post ever. Actually the old NAD gear are pretty good and widely recognized as a lot of bang for the buck. Just basic, no frills, straightahead design, both electronically and cosmetically. Somehow I missed this thread last year. John Warren, you have mail! I want to build some of those as I'm sure the caps in my AA's are overdue anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Be careful Artto -- or you'll have to rebuild your whole room from scratch. I still don't understand how building these old networks around near zero loss parts can sound better than using substitutions that have losses in the same neighborhood as the original parts had when new. I've brought this up several times, but no one seems to want to address it. One would think the amount of resistance in the circuit contributes to the overall voicing of the speaker, and that removing most of it out of the circuit would make the top end a little too forward. How about a shoot off? I'll put my Jensen PIO 'lossy' Type AA up against the Hovlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Trey, It's really good to hear you guys at Klipsch are taking such an interest in researching this upgrade option for the Klipschorn. Like any upgrade in hi-fi, the last few percent of improvement doesn't come cheap. To merely count the cost in parts used, probably doesn't do justice to the amount of time and effort you guys have put into fine tuning this upgrade option. I guess in many ways it's been a labor of love. With reference to Tanya Tucker (a great Elvis fan), I would respect her opinion regarding perceived improvements to her Klipschorns after the upgrade. She is, after all, a recording artist who would be familiar with the dynamics of 'live' sound. She would also be familiar with the former sound of her Klipschorns. Any improvement in sound should be immediately apparent to her - even when her speakers are driven by NAD gear (which is in it's own right fine sounding SS equipment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I agree with the NAD comment. I owned many amplifiers, no one of them giving me complete satisfaction, until I bought my little cheap NAD C320BEE amp. It blows every other amp I've tested away. From time to time, I try another, more "esoteric" amp, but I always come back to the NAD. It simply sounds better. Some amps do better, but then just in one or two parameters; there were always trade-offs. With the NAD, i just stopped listening to the amp and started listening to the music itself. It even made me give up my multi-amp project. It has everything: sweetness, delicacy, balance, deep strong bass, warmth, clarity, and ooh-my-gawd dynamics. It just doesn't impress physically; no guest turning around in admiration, until they hear the sound. I belive hearing such a sound from such a small and humble amp is part of the magic ...speaking of the new updated drivers, what are the difefrences between K55V and K55x? any real improvement, or just fashion? Is there any picture available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorcoll Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Trey, you have to tell us the result of your work. We want know how sounds the AK-4 compared to old Klipsch's networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I think it's interesting that a very young Tanya Tucker was featured on the cover of a 1974 Rolling Stone magazine which also had in it that infamous Rolling Stone/PWK article; and now, 30 years later, Klipsch is going to Tanya's house to beef up her Klipschorns. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Trey or anyone who by now has tried this upgrade...what parts do you get with this upgrade and is it basically plug n play??? (2) New Tweeters (2) New Mid Horns? (Drivers or all new horns???) (2) New Crossovers/AK-4s (2) New Bass Bin Doors with their crossovers??? * all new wiring??? So if, as in my situation one has the "boxes" and they are in good shape as well as the ability to basically turn a wrench...(not much beyond that)...you have the sound of 2005 Khorns??? Even at $1800 (YIIIKES... ) and the cost I have already outlayed for my Khorns...not to mention, perhaps minus me selling off the parts I replace (just cherry on the Sundae) I have brand new Khorns??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I do have a tax return coming...what to do, what to do.... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 ---------------- On 3/11/2005 3:42:36 PM silversport wrote: Trey or anyone who by now has tried this upgrade...what parts do you get with this upgrade and is it basically plug n play??? (2) New Tweeters (2) New Mid Horns? (Drivers or all new horns???) (2) New Crossovers/AK-4s (2) New Bass Bin Doors with their crossovers??? * all new wiring??? So if, as in my situation one has the "boxes" and they are in good shape as well as the ability to basically turn a wrench...(not much beyond that)...you have the sound of 2005 Khorns??? Bill ---------------- Bill -- Yes, it's plug and play if you know your way around a K-horn. I got one of the first ones, and expect they're still the same: 2 New Tweeters 2 New Mid Drivers (you use your extant mid horns) 2 New Bass Bin Doors, complete with an entire AK-4 crossover mounted on each back All New Wiring You might check with Klipsch about whether these are the current contents. I can't assure you that it would sound like a new 2003-2005 K-horn. Perhaps they can. It would be a good idea to have the K-401 (plastic) midrange horn, based on many comments on the forum. I don't recall the year of yours, but your tweeters should be flush-mounted, and if your K is around 1971 or earlier, you'd probably best remove the woofer mounting board, as I found from experience, and screw or bolt the woofer directly to the woofer motor board -- see my thread, Restoring the standard bass horn throat in a '62 pair of Klipschorns. I suggest an electric screwdriver, nut driver if you need to remove the little nuts to dismount the tweeter (which you need to do), and of course a soldering iron/gun. I won't go into details here, but it could take a small number of hours to get all this done. Give it at least 40 hrs. to break in! You'll be disappointed in a lack of bass and some glare until you're past that period. I feel, and others have said, that the AK-4 presents a very smooth sound, with great transitions between the drivers and excellent bass. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Silver, I think it includes everything but the horns themselves, you should have the K-401K's in your '84's already so no need to replace those. Considering a new pair retails at $7500 and even with a deep discount maybe $5800. So if you bought a pair for $2500 and laid out $1800 you are at $4300. If you are going to spend that kind of coin, look into the ES Networks from ALK. The new midranges and tweeters are similar to previous Klipsch components minus a litte efficiency. The biggest difference IMO is the AK-4 network itself. If you do some reading the ES Networks sound like they make vast differences in sonic quality. Hey its your cash and your speakers but seriously before getting anxious with upgraditis do a rewire and listen to them. If you aren't happy with the sound and feel that it is lacking then look into upgrade options. The money your talking about could go towards source component upgrades if you decide the speakers sound great stock. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Frzninvt: thanks for your responses here and elsewhere...I am learning a lot. I don't have the upgradeitis, thank goodness...here is the deal with my '84 "C"s...a past owner ruined the wiring...it appears that all the drivers/speakers are fine...I am not too handy with a soldering iron but without downloading pics let me see if I can't paint a picture for you: The crossovers in the top are FILTHY, dirty and COVERED in sticky dust...suprisingly the wood all around is good...I would rate it a solid "6" and that is being conservitave. The wires to the crossovers are cut and taped back together. The Mon*ter wire is oxydized and the jacket is worn through in several locations. The banana plugs are beat up Someone MOLESTED the bass bin doors and the "crossovers" as well as the terminal plate. One of the bin doors looks like the wood from the speakers while the other looks like someone scavanged a peach crate...this might be true since they also added new screws and not at the points for the original mounting even though they don't appear stripped. On that same bin door, one of the fuse holders is gone. On both bass bin doors, there is oxydized wires and lots of solder...was this from Klipsch, I dunno but it looks bad. Today I used fine sandpaper and BLO and believe I brought the cabinets to at 6.75 plus...they look MUCH better but there are a few things for me to do first. I plan to replace the speaker grill cloth...when stained, the previous owner got stain all over the grills. I need to build 2 more side grills as they went MIA...Klipsch seems to think that adding the AK-4s will make my '84s sound like '05s...this is a powerful statement...my options are open as I am in the learning stage but I want to hear these...getting up the extra green or learning something else will be the only thing holding me back. Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I have the metal K-400 horns...does this mean that I need to get K-401 composite horns before doing this if that is what I decide??? Are the whole crossover for the "tophat" and the bass bin actually all in the door like in the earlier pics??? Trey seemed to think that the change made them, at least soundwise, undistiguishable from brand new...not bad...I am keeping my options open. $750 for used Khorns I cash and carry them to my home (what a back breaker...note to self, call friends next time...oh wait, I'm NEVER doing this again... ) $1800 for Klipsch mods... My time $2550 versuse MAYBE $5800 (but I've never been able to get one close to this price for new, even sitting years at dealer) Maybe this isn't too bad??? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, what to do! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 The K-401K's are $50 apiece so add another $100 to the $1800, considering you only have $750 invested in the Khorn's plus a little effort that you need to put into them, $2650 for the performance of 2005 Khorns is a steal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 ---------------- Are the whole crossover for the "tophat" and the bass bin actually all in the door like in the earlier pics??? ---------------- I didn't locate the earlier pics, but, yes, the entire crossover is mounted on the back of the replacement bass bin door and hidden away when it's sealed up. No other crossover units someplace else. Wires furnished with the kits run separately from the outside of the bin door to the mid and tweeter. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Thanks...I am still learning my options but this is the way I am leaning as my woofer look brand new and I will also have new MidHorns as well as tweeters and networks...basically a brand new speaker...I will post when I get 'em done whichever way I go...Thanks Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 LarryC: You did this mod, right??? How long did it take you to do the changeover to listening to them??? Do you have the metal K-400 horns or the composite K-401s in your KHorns now??? I have read simply putting dynamat or similar on the metal horn will take care of any problems but if it is just another $100 (sheesh) and they mount up the same on my 1984s (year of change???) I might just do this and sell off my K-55M/K-400 midhorns...Excellent read and information by the way LarryC. Thanks, Bill Pics are in the attachment of Trey's 6th response on page #1 of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 ---------------- On 3/12/2005 2:20:17 PM silversport wrote: LarryC: You did this mod, right??? How long did it take you to do the changeover to listening to them??? Do you have the metal K-400 horns or the composite K-401s in your KHorns now??? I have read simply putting dynamat or similar on the metal horn will take care of any problems but if it is just another $100 (sheesh) and they mount up the same on my 1984s (year of change???) ---------------- Yes, I got a very early pair of AK-4 "kits." I don't remember now, it probably took me 4 hrs. or so, maybe something more. Some of that was dismounting the tweeters and de-soldering and re-soldering wires to drivers (I do that rather than slide the connectors onto the tabs) while figuring out which were the positive tabs on the drivers. I had changed my mid horns several years before, now vaguely recall a little smoother sound. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Larry: Thanks... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 If you tell me the size of your room, how far you are going to be sitting from your Klipschorns, how loud you like to listen, and what kind of music you like -- I can probably give you some helpful advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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