IndyKlipschFan Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Tbrennen Without trying to be a Klipsch snob (I, too, laugh with not at some on here, but then again I always seem to learn something too from them WHY they feel this or that way too.) I use the term "Intellectually Constipated" myself and give out helpful suggestions rather than criticism. You should have gone to the Midwest Audiofest horn tube amp show.. wow... Talk about an audio geek convention... But also fun too. I was just giving a fair and balanced opinion on my own experience. That's all. Many people have never heard a Cornwall Speaker or much of the Heritage products... I have. And I still have most of them too. It is a shame you have stooped to this level. I am far from a snob and love the freedom to at least share from my experience. I did not go into what driver vs what crossover rather just shared from my own experience to the original posts question to someone looking. It is all opinion anyhow. As far as wooden boats, it is about style, and the feel of forgotten craftsmanship relived. Something about that bygone era where craftsmanship mattered is appealing to many people. Yes, you are correct, they require maint every year, and yes they are expensive too. But so is an expensive red Italian fast Ferrari ... and that is not for everyone too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Great pics, Kelly, thanks- Hard comments, Tom, but then I have no time for old wood boats, even gave up my sailboat, as it took up too much of my weekend time (need to keep the honey happy) wood boats arent better sailing, they look better, more like sculptures, big ole horns dont look better, they sound better for the money- I have NOT heard much of the JBL systems, sorry, bet they are good, but I think we are like the car freaks who change the chip or the tires on our family sedans to get the best performance; a lot of practical value for the money the cheaper the Cornwall the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Re: The Cult of the Archaic Point WELL taken--I have been accused of this by A LOT of people over the years. I live in an old house (well, old by Los Angeles standards: 1927) and it is SOOO much better made than anything I have seen "new" in the same price range! My house is full of hand-crafted details that just DO NOT exist any more in homes that cost less than a four of five MILLION dollars! A good friend of mine just bought a brand new home in Orange County for $990K (roughly the value of my home) and it's a piece of CRAP! My house is full of antique and vintage furnishings for the same reason--the stuff IS made better and the materials used are CERTAINLY better! When it comes to things electronic and mechanical I am less of a fanatic. When I gutted my kitchen a few years ago I went with Gaggenau, Miele, Sub-Zero, etc. as opposed to an old GE monitor-top and a wood burning stove. Why? Because the new stuff is BETTER in almost every way! But my experience has taught me that hi-fi gear HAS NOT improved at the same rate! I listen to my vintage stuff and it sounds WAY better than ANYTHING I could buy new dollar for dollar! And I have actually listened to a pair of 1980's Cornwalls side-by-side with my 1964 Cornwalls with my current gear. A good friend loved my speakers so much he bought a pair and had them shipped to me for convenience. When he arrived to pick them up we did a comparison between the two pairs and the difference was REMARKABLE. Maybe this was due to the X-overs? The vertical orientation of my horns? The alnico drivers? All of the above? Not sure WHAT the difference was but the old Cornwalls had much cleaner and better defined bass, were more "dynamic" and on stereo playback "imaged" WAAAAY better. Why? I REALLY DON'T KNOW! But my expereince taught me that the old ones are better, so I passed this along when the question was asked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thanks for the laugh this beautiful sunny fall morning Tom. Reality bites. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 tom, I will not argue about cornwalls, you have your right to opin about alnico, TAD, etc. But you are so far off base with wooden boats that I am truley flabbergasted! Perhaps your image of people who own wooden boats is of blue blazers, martinis and showmanship and oneupmanship but as an owner of a wooden boat I really am offended to be stereotyped like that. I love wooden boats for the tactile and visual joy they give me (much like the joy someone takes in beautifully made wooden furntiure, perhaps you prefer linoleum and fiberglass chiars), admiration for the craftmanship inlvolved, yes too I indulge in the nostalgia value they give me (perhaps you hate to think of the past but some of us have great memories of sailing in wooden boats with our parents when we were young and enjoy doing the same with theri children now). also, wooden boats can be competitive with modern boats in many ways...my little wooden sloop is a fabulous sailer, a joy to sail, to spend the day in. Finally I enjoy maintaining my boat, polishing the brass, varnishing the wood. By the way I also own a fiberglass sloop, quite a bit larger than my little wooden sloop, which I use use for longer trips. but I will never give up the wooden boat. I still enjoy a day sail on that more than anything. too bad it seems at times that your vision is so narrowed that everyone else and their opinions and tastes seem wrong or that of a cartoon character, I assure you we are neither. your invitation to sail is hereby canceled. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 WOW! Sounds like class warfare. Everybody has something that they are proud of and yea, once in a while they like to show it off. "Cult of the Archaic"? I would guess this book is all about putting down people that have a few bucks. Isn't it funny how sometimes the stereotyping of people is ok and other times it is taboo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 ---------------- On 10/1/2003 10:25:54 AM Allan Songer wrote: Re: The Cult of the Archaic Point WELL taken--I have been accused of this by A LOT of people over the years. I live in an old house (well, old by Los Angeles standards: 1927) and it is SOOO much better made than anything I have seen "new" in the same price range! My house is full of hand-crafted details that just DO NOT exist any more in homes that cost less than a four of five MILLION dollars! A good friend of mine just bought a brand new home in Orange County for $990K (roughly the value of my home) and it's a piece of CRAP! My house is full of antique and vintage furnishings for the same reason--the stuff IS made better and the materials used are CERTAINLY better! When it comes to things electronic and mechanical I am less of a fanatic. When I gutted my kitchen a few years ago I went with Gaggenau, Miele, Sub-Zero, etc. as opposed to an old GE monitor-top and a wood burning stove. Why? Because the new stuff is BETTER in almost every way! But my experience has taught me that hi-fi gear HAS NOT improved at the same rate! I listen to my vintage stuff and it sounds WAY better than ANYTHING I could buy new dollar for dollar! And I have actually listened to a pair of 1980's Cornwalls side-by-side with my 1964 Cornwalls with my current gear. A good friend loved my speakers so much he bought a pair and had them shipped to me for convenience. When he arrived to pick them up we did a comparison between the two pairs and the difference was REMARKABLE. Maybe this was due to the X-overs? The vertical orientation of my horns? The alnico drivers? All of the above? Not sure WHAT the difference was but the old Cornwalls had much cleaner and better defined bass, were more "dynamic" and on stereo playback "imaged" WAAAAY better. Why? I REALLY DON'T KNOW! But my expereince taught me that the old ones are better, so I passed this along when the question was asked! ---------------- Hello: Allan: Something we agree on! My house was completed October 9, 1926. I remodeled the bathroom, opened a wall, 2x4s that were 2 inches by 4 inches. Gumwood trim, leaded glass windows, real plaster and lathing, QUALITY I used to feel the Cornwall IIs were superior in sound, until I heard GaryMD's and my friend Dave's. Now I have no preference, I stick with tube amplifiers and I enjoy my music. I am not "listening" for the system, I am listening for the music. With two (2) sets of Cornwall IIs, my advice there can be better years, as noted in a study of what day was best for automobile production. BUT, a Cornwall is a Cornwall. You can tweak it, update, change drivers, but yo have the chance to buy CORNWALLS - do it. The aformentioned statement is personal opinion and was not written to demean, lower or trash other Klipsch Speakers or their owners. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 thanks again for the input. i HAVE heard cornwalls before, it has just been over 10yrs. way too small a room,way too much JVC-s.s.amplification,some permanent hearing loss.they belonged to a friend. i will follow-up. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 ---------------- On 10/1/2003 9:52:49 AM TBrennan wrote: the Cult of the Archaic; the belief that old things are inherantly better and that by valueing such things one shows superior refinement and taste. ---------------- How true Tom. You know, in 1972 we used to trash the 'newer' CBS owned, Fender guitars & amps. Pre CBS was so much better! Early 70's Pioneer SX series receivers were claimed to outperform the old Fisher & HK tube stuff they were replacing. Most people 'bought' the idea. Some years later folks started saying that it was the Pioneer stuff that sucked. Now, here we are decades later & a 72' Fender guitar is all the rage. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Pioneer SX series sucked in the 80's. I suppose maybe they needed a 30 year break-in period? It's kind of amusing to watch the tables turn over time. The same stuff that was being flamed years ago, all of sudden becomes the greatest thing since sliced bread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Reading this thread.... I am reminded why I do not post much or spend much time reading in the 2CH forum any more. Its just not worth it. Really too bad since this can be a great place to learn from time to time. Seems to me it has gotten worse over the last year or so. So, If you reply to this, don't be offended if I don't reply, I probably won't see it. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 you may be right JM, though I sometimes get the wind knocked out of my sails (pun intended), I come back because within all the b*llsh*t I do tend to learn something here. I may end up like you in the end, in the mean time I try to keep my curmudgeon, know-it-all and miscontent filters on HIGH. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 ---------------- On 10/1/2003 5:28:15 PM artto wrote: How true Tom. You know, in 1972 we used to trash the 'newer' CBS owned, Fender guitars & amps. Pre CBS was so much better! Early 70's Pioneer SX series receivers were claimed to outperform the old Fisher & HK tube stuff they were replacing. Most people 'bought' the idea. Some years later folks started saying that it was the Pioneer stuff that sucked. Now, here we are decades later & a 72' Fender guitar is all the rage. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Pioneer SX series sucked in the 80's. I suppose maybe they needed a 30 year break-in period? It's kind of amusing to watch the tables turn over time. The same stuff that was being flamed years ago, all of sudden becomes the greatest thing since sliced bread! ---------------- Maybe I'm old fashionned but 1972 was a dramatic year for me with the introduction of the micro-tilt adjustment neck. A band-aid for pedestrian luthiers not knowing how to shim a neck. Granted the micro-tilt adjustment is better than a poor luthier. But who wants to deal with a poor luthier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 ---------------- On 10/1/2003 7:26:04 PM painful reality wrote: Maybe I'm old fashionned but 1972 was a dramatic year for me with the introduction of the micro-tilt adjustment neck. A band-aid for pedestrian luthiers not knowing how to shim a neck. Granted the micro-tilt adjustment is better than a poor luthier. But who wants to deal with a poor luthier? ---------------- Dang, Jeff, you're being way too subtle here .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Someday, I might own Cornwalls. People on this forum that I respect have Cornwalls and seem to love them. When I get them, I will not feel more refined or tasteful than anybody else. A guy can go out and buy a nice glass boat or he can buy an old wood boat and get to work. Whether he has the money or time to do that is his own business. More power to him. Maybe the smile on his face is because he is thinking about all the hours he spent getting the thing shipshape and how proud he is because of his effort. Now, if he boasts that he is more refined and/or expresses that he has more taste than anybody else, screw him and the sails that move him. That would be his problem IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 What are the best year models for Cornwalls? Answer: The best years for Cornwalls are the years I was building them, of course!!(1977-1983) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 ---------------- On 10/2/2003 9:42:48 AM HDBRbuilder wrote: What are the best year models for Cornwalls? Answer: The best years for Cornwalls are the years I was building them, of course!!(1977-1983) ---------------- well after all the great responses,and THANK YOU FREEZIN'! i took andy(hdbrbuilder)'s advise and, from what i can tell,bought a pair of 1982 corns! they have sequential sn's that start with cbr30X. they have had some type of finish applied,but are in really good shape, w/only SLIGHT damage to one top corner on one speaker,and all the drivers work.THANK YOU KELLY for the sn link that is what i used to i.d.them. i'm going to hook'em back up soon,and will follow-up. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Congratulations! Glad you didn't get the fiberglass ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Good going, avman! I've always thought that it wouldn't be too difficult to convert "horizontal Cornwalls" to verticals, by simply replacing the motorboards. I'm not sure (Andy could confirm), but I think they're just screwed and glued, using 1X1 cleats. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Way to go! You'll love 'em as much as the rest of us Cornheads do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Fini, Earlier Cornwalls with drop-in fronts(the venbeered ones) had their motorboards, after the grille cloth had been wrapped around the edges of the motorboard and secired to the rear side, screwed to 3/4"x3/4" glue blocks which had been glued and nailed to the sides. By the time I began building them, the speakers had removable grille cloth panels. The motorboards were glued and stapled to the same 3/4"x3/4" glue blocks which had been glued and stapled into the sides/top/bottom of the cabinet. The port "shelf was also used to help secure the front...stapled or nailed to the shelf. In orde rto replace the motorboard on these it coul.d become a real hassle. It is ridiculous to even attempt to replace the motorboard on the flush-front style decorator cornwall cabinets, though...those motorboards are an integral part of the cabinet structure...glued and nailed together. So...it depends on he cabinet style, and when it was made, whether motorboard replacement is a relatively easy option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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