Should Khorns be so bright?

[klipschfanatic]

JTA,

You could contact Kimber and talk to them about what you are hearing.

http://www.kimber.com/Contact/TechSupport.aspx

[garymd]

I've heard Khorns driven by crappy equipment, completely out of corners and they STILL sounded good!

I must admit that when I first got mine, after owning Cornwalls for over 20 years, I was somewhat unimpressed. After replacing the networks and fiddling with different gear, that all changed. Even still, the first time I played Dave Brubeck's Time Out, I knew they were special speakers. Yes they needed tweaking, they needed to be sealed to the corners, they needed new crossovers, a little rope caulk etc., etc., etc., but they were NOT too bright! My room is an acoustical nightmare and they sound fabulous!

SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG!!!!!

I hope you figure it out because they're wonderful speakers.

[Allan Songer]

Why not stick with the Cornwalls and return the Klipschorns?

I once bought a pair of Belles back in the mid-90's for CHEAP--got them from a Frat House over by USC and they were pretty beat. I spent about month repairing and refinishing them in our shop here and made them BEAUTIFUL and once I got them home I just KNEW they were going to replace my Cornwalls.

I owned the Belles for about a month. I liked them well enough but the Cornwalls blew them AWAY when listening to small combo jazz on vinyl.

But I NEVER thought the Belles were "too bright."

[dragonfyr]

JTA,

You could contact Kimber and talk to them about what you are hearing.

http://www.kimber.com/Contact/TechSupport.aspx

Why do I suspect that suddenly all the reputed sonic benefits will suddenly cease to be caused by the 'transparent' interconnects![]

Sonic chameleons!

Perhaps you should have a seance and contact P.T.Barnum! He seemed to have a bit more insight into the matter![]

[NOSValves]

Cable makes a difference, but not THAT big of a difference. I use Kimber 8TC -- it's not a problem.

You'll get a lot of different advice on equalizers, but your situation warrants one. I use the new Behringer. You have a lot of money invested in that set up, and since it's going to be doing a lot of HT, I don't think you can do better than what you have. The other option is to embrace lunacy and do what I did: Replace the K-401 horn with Al's Trachorn, the K-77 tweeter with the Beyma CP-25, and change networks. You could go for broke and drop in a pair of Al's Extreme Slope Networks -- about $2500 total for the whole deal -- but at least you'd be happy and done with it!

That's it Dean send my VRD stuff back. It's obvious to me you could never appreciate it anyway []

Craig

[JTA]

I am going to replace the networks later and even the drivers if need be. We will see what happens and I will certainly report back. Thank you to those who gave helpful suggestions. I think some people in here need to realize that what might sound good and be acceptable to them, may not to others. Sound like anything else in life is a matter of taste. Truth be told, I only got these because I did not want to shell out big money on speakers until I build my real music/theater room. As much as I admire Klipsch and its nostalgia, I never intended to have their speakers in my dream system. They are a good value, but far from what I ultimately want. I have a lot of seat time with speakers like Wilson, B&W, McIntosh and a variety of others. Perhaps that has made me a bit spoiled, but it certainly has illustrated to me my definition of ideal sound.

I certainly hope no one takes offense to what I am saying, though I feel like I am already beginning to be chastised because I do not hold this entire speaker brand in as high of a regard as some of you do. Certainly, you should not be offened, because after all, it is just a pair of speakers. I have a lot of repect for this forum and the people that post on it because it seems like a very tight group of audio enthusiasts. I have not seen this with any other audio brand, and that certainly says something.

[Parrot]

I think some people in here need to realize that what

might sound good and be acceptable to them, may not to others.

Yeah, that's it, right, sure. LOL!

[Cal Blacksmith]

By all means they may not be "your cup of tea" and you will not be held

in any lessor status for liking other brands more. Please stay and

contribute to the discussions even if you do change to something else,

no worries[]

[jacksonbart]

Can I have them when you move?

[LarryC]

The bigger issue here is the harsh high frequency sounds the tweeter is emitting.

That's a striking comment -- are the tweeters spitting at you? Both sides equally?

Are you sure it's only the tweeters, or is it the midranges too? -- the tweeters come in way up around the top note of the piano, their sound is hard to separate out without putting your ears right next to the tweeter exit on the upper panel, and I wonder if it's really them. What happens if you disconnect the tweeters at the crossover (aside from losing any sparkle or sheen)?

[NOSValves]

The bigger issue here is the harsh high frequency sounds the tweeter is emitting.

That's a striking comment -- are the tweeters spitting at you? Both sides equally?

Are you sure it's only the tweeters, or is it the midranges too? -- the tweeters come in way up around the top note of the piano, their sound is hard to separate out without putting your ears right next to the tweeter exit on the upper panel, and I wonder if it's really them. What happens if you disconnect the tweeters at the crossover (aside from losing any sparkle or sheen)?

Yup your probably right the Mid horn is what he is hearing and just attributes it to the tweeter. You have to literally fill the mid horn with a towel to actually hear the tweeter when testing for operation of all drivers. I still think something is wrong with his speakers. Who knows what happened to them while on the showroom floor.

If you liked your Cornwall's you should at least like the Khorns. I wouldn't be surprised if you came in saying you preferred the bass from the Cornwall's but the way your talking you can't even stand the sound...... it just makes no sense. While the Bass is different is really isn't that different and would have nothing to do with the highs. In fact the mid horn in the Khorn is far superior to the Cornwall's mid horn IMHO

Craig

[J.4knee]

Have you tried to use an SPL meter to measure what you are hearing using test tones. Not pink/whiter noise but a test disc to see if it is the Khorns not meeting your expectations or if you actually have an issue here. It could be the networks are defective too and you are loosing some signal strength through it. I guess you'll find out when you swap them. Hey if it turns out Khorns are not your particular brand of vodka then so be it. (then you could sell em to me real cheap []). Keep us posted and good luck.

R/Jim

[joshnich]

Maybe it's me. But it sounds as if a little chain yanking is going on here!

Josh

[jacksonbart]

Maybe it's me. But it sounds as if a little chain yanking is going on here! Josh

That is right up there with the 'Old Jedi Mind Trick'

I own this new 2005 911 Turbo and I tells you my old 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham was quicker off the line and handled better. Now the standard Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera where slow as boulder rolling uphill. But that Brougham, which essentiallty was just an interior fabric upgrade over the base model, was very very fast.

[3dzapper]

Maybe it is just me but I have Cornwalls directly in front of my Khorns. To tell the truth, I am not at all impressed with the bass output from the Corns. Compared to the Horns it is weak and anemic, lacking "thump". Although it is better than Heresys bass, I would still need my sub to satisfy my taste in bass with the Corns. That comparison is with the same amps, SET 300B (8watts) and Wright Mono 10s (20watts).

If Macs can't provide better bass than those two amps, I think I have saved a big bunch of money.

Have you tried reversing one of the speaker leads from your Mac to the Khorns? There could be a phasing problem despite all those red and black marks. Those marks are really for reference only. I have several amps that require switching colors to provide better bass and soundstaging. (Scott 299C and the Wrights)

I recently demonstrated that effect to a visitor who just bought his first Khorns.

Rick

[seti]

Maybe it's me. But it

sounds as if a little chain yanking is going on here! Josh

That is right up there with the 'Old Jedi Mind Trick'

These aren't the khorns you are looking for mail them to seti. Mail along Mail along.[6]

[dbflash]

I heard a pair of Khorns yesterday with a pair of MAC (MC30's) amps and they sounded great. So great that I bought the Khorns[].

I moved my Cornwalls out of the room and installed the KHorns to my VRD's. Stll sounded great. Not bright at all.

I know bright. My first pair of Klipsch I hated them. Couldn't listen to more than half a CD without my ears hurting. Bright as a brand new penny.

I used Kimber Kable for about 2 weeks with both Lascala's and Cornwalls.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but I would break down and get the Home Depot wire and just for grins change your speaker wire out if it's easy to get to.

By the way I really like your room and setup.

Danny

[jpm]

I use Home Depot's Carol 12 gauge cable and have bass in spades. Why pay more?

[LarryC]

They were run on these very same amps, but not setup properly at all. They were not even in corners and sitting infront of them was a 15' long solid granite table. I attributed that to the fact that they sounded the way they did.

Did you buy the demo amps along with the speakers, and could they be the problem?

[oscarsear]

I purchased a pair of new 2004 Khorns. On a tube integrated amp they were decidedly lacking bass that I recalled from my previous pair of Khorns (circa 1986). After a rolling a number of tubes, etc....I resigned myself to looking for a compatible sub-woofer. Then I sent my Cary in for service and re-connected my old SS Adcom separates. Like day and night the bass was there. Since I've replaced the Cary with Adcom SS and the bass conundrum is solved. This may not at all be related to your experience but it sure sounds similar. More recently I've upgraded the tweeters to the jbl2404 units and was extremely pleased with the results. Now I'm considering changing the mid-range. Frankly, for the after market $$ going into these I wished I'd bought used instead of new.

All this said at no time were the speakers "unlistenable" to although certain recordings were hard to bear. They just seem to be getting better as I play with them.

Also, my Khorns are not part of the AV set-up. I have a dedicated AV set-up using Klipsch 7 reference series all around. AV play back really drives bass much more than stereo playback. Explosions, collisions, gunfire and just plain cinematic booms are rampant in AV playback. I doub't that these Khorns on SS or not could punch out that stuff. The RSW-15 sub-woofer translates it all into earth rattling tremors.

Just my $0.02... Hope you get it worked out.