edwinr Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 ... Did he even hear the things with the backs built like this? Maybe it'd be more relevant to say what your opinion of the issue is with current units. Surely you heard the 60th Ann. models with and without the enclosed rear in testing chambers and typical rooms with corners of various suitability before you approved production and sale of such an important model. Or do the "60s" represent a speaker that Mr. Klipsch would not have wanted? Good questions, Ben. The only valid reason I can see for introducing backs to Klipschorns is to take away, or reduce the variables of corner airtight corner sealing. This may allow more consistency in the sound for consumers - and maybe reviewers if anyone has read that Constantine Soo article from 2001. You can't change the fact that the Klipschorn is designed for corner placement. You need the corners to continue past the Klipschorn, back or no back, to continue the flare of the horn. This will allow the Klipschorn to dig deep and reproduce deep bass. If you're going to pull the Klipschorns out from the corner and rely on the sealed back, well... you might as well save yourself some money and buy La Scalas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 You need the corners to continue past the Klipschorn, back or no back, to continue the flare of the horn. Apparently, this isn't true -- according to Roy. If you're going to pull the Klipschorns out from the corner and rely on the sealed back, well... you might as well save yourself some money and buy La Scalas. Doesn't change the fact that one is a 50Hz horn and the other is 70Hz horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yep, the truth Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yep, the truth Hz. LOL! [Y] mike tn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Regarding the efficacy of backs on folded corner-horn speakers, I speak from experience of a sort. As I have indicated several times in the past,[1] I used four Speakerlab SKhorns in a mobile DJ business in the mid-70s. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The speakers were ordered assembled in raw plywood. They arrived in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Michigan from Seattle in plywood shipping crates. Anticipating that good corners would seldom (read never) be available in the school gymnasiums, cafeterias, etc. where I deafened adolescents, I used the plywood from the shipping crates to add backs to the four speakers. The backs did not extend beyond the speakers, as would be ideal in real false corners (hows that for an oxymoron?), but they were effective. Naturally the bass was better when two of the four speakers were properly positioned tightly into the corners along the long wall of my parents living room. Nevertheless, moving them out of the corners (with the backs in place) was not as detrimental to the bass as one would expect. I have had La Scalas and the bass from the SKhorns with backs and not in corners was considerably better than La Scalas. To put this in context, the power to the 8ohm speakers was from a Dynaco 400 amp. When using two speakers/channel in parallel, the load was 4ohm and the amp was rated at 300 watt/channel into a 4ohm load. The bass was tight and fast. When a sorority called to book a return engagement, the young woman asked me if the price included the drummer. She was certain there had been a drummer at the prior event. It was all I could do to persuade her there had never been a drummer. With all of the SS power going into four corner-horns with backs and not in corners, you felt the bass; it felt like a live drummer; it was a cut above La Scalas.[2] [1] See http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/401946.aspx [2] Please understand that I love the sound of La Scalas, including their bass, but they could not compete with the corner-horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 You need the corners to continue past the Klipschorn, back or no back, to continue the flare of the horn. Apparently, this isn't true -- according to Roy. From the Klipsch Heritage Manual: "... With extremely high sensitivity, this three way fully horn loaded loudspeaker with a folded tri-hedral bass horn utilises the walls and corners of the listening room as part of it's design... The Klipschorn requires corner placement because the wall of the room serve to complete the speaker's low frequency horn. To acheive full frequency extension, the Klipschorn should fit tightly in a corner without trim or baseboard interference and the wall surfaces should extend at least 25 inches beyond the side grills". So we're rewriting history? [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 If your going to set them in a room not in corners at all, you should consider doing what DeanG did. (extending them out how far is arguable. I agree the standard said was 48" because that is 1/2 of a 8 foot sheet of Baltic Birch Plywood was that long.) If your looking to do what I did and get them close to the walls, as it has been stated, move them into your corners 12" or less for optimal results!! (So you can in effect toe them in little now.) Or, even if your room measurements were perfect to begin with, I still feel this is the perfect mod to take advantage of the cabinet. In BOTH cases, you will feel and hear a improvement. the walls will complete the lower end.. It is amazing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 OK, off to bed now.. 1:14 am.. just played some Christmas music softly... and they really sound wonderful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 From the Klipsch Heritage Manual: "...The Klipschorn requires corner placement because the wall of the room serve to complete the speaker's low frequency horn...and the wall surfaces should extend at least 25 inches beyond the side grills". It's just a manual, nobody takes those things seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 DeanG said, "It's just a manual, nobody takes those things seriously." hahahahaha You mean the secret was in the manual? Look, as I stated before, my mod in no way takes away from the K horns purpose. It is still a corner horn. This mod just allows options in placement to your corner all sealed in, so now 100% of that sealed optimal sound because you get 100% optimal bass sound, can be achieved... and the regular "push it in and hope" is now not a problem. People that have heard the 60th ones... And will I am sure will hear mine will long for that solid of a low end. More so this mod tightens up the bass that for whatever reason in my situation was not working. I suggest we ask ColterPhoto1 who has now heard the 60th ones who also owns K horns too.... to comment. Lets further see and hear what he thinks if I can get him over here as well to my mod.. (My thinking... he will go OMG, yeppers you did it..) The k horns were good, to sometimes great before.. They are just excellent, EVERY TIME now in a imperfect room. They are still in corners, just not all tucked in...... And the flare, yes, continues the bass notes down to where they need to be. (As the sound continues on those walls. What is debatable, is again, just how far it needs to be out of that side.. there are discrepancies.) I could of built longer backs/sides of course and ended up with something like DeanG. I just preferred to have the look be the same of the K horn and let the side walls complete the K horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I don't have a bass problem, but I am thinking about toeing in the top hats to get a better sound. Any opinions on this? Or would putting on backs like Roger did, and then toe them in? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 If your "WAF" or you have a I do not care what they look like, I care what they sound like.. the tops are wing nut locked down.. I believe it would not be a problem to put them where you need them at all. They would not look symmetrical though. I have often stated <<< sorry... OK, better said, offered a "helpful suggestion," Klipsch should of made the top section so that it could be rotated where it needs to be. The thing is, the speakers are sooo huge sounding, your still going to get that big sound no matter if it is perfect on axis to you or not. The rule was in my commercial sound for my band was... If you can look down that throat of the driver and see all the way down your covered! Seems to work, even today, even if your not 100% to the nth percentile with a laser pointer. For the purists... 100% nirvana people..always room to tweak. hehehehe Get that laser pointer out now.. get it pointed to "your seat." And make it perrrrrrrrrfect and ahhhhhhhhhh Life is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Roger I know they are wing nuted, and I know they will not look sysmetrical. I was just wandering which would be better, adding the backs as you did or just toeing in the tops? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 If your bass is not an issue, take off the tops from the wing nuts and see/hear. The bass is not as directional as the mids and highs obviously. Let us know what you think. (in the end, that is what matters.) If you need to toe them in or out... just a little.. Why not get 100% of that bass and have them look like they do now? My thought process was this, I knew form a pretty perfect room before how they sounded.. I also know how they sounded in the 60th ones.. I was not getting good bass before. I am now..[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Jay -- learn about your speaker, go look at it. Tell me, how are you going to turn the top hat with the thing still in the corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Kinda hard isn't it deang.. But hey, I think you and I are on to something here with the backs sealed like you or I did it.. There is no way, (OK.. IMO) you can deny this is a improvement.. Really, I feel this strong about it. Again, this mod is reversable.. So nothing you do will show if you go back to the old style with what I did. I think the 59.99 I spent on the 4' x 8' Balitc Birch and 3.57 on screws (plus labor) was a home run. Just let your own ears decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 It works good for me, that's for sure -- but I didn't have much choice really. I didn't do it for the bass, I did it to get some imaging out of them. I haven't heard the Klipschorn in a lot of different rooms, but the times I have heard them -- I wouldn't say they suffered from a lack of quality bass. Mine sounded tighter after I did the mod, but that was in my room. At Parrot's house -- and his room is pretty big, they sounded tight and controlled there as well, and he just has his pushed into the corners in the normal fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 The comment in the manual disturb me -- it contradicts what Roy said. The manual follows the line of reasoning that was established long ago -- here and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 I will post the link.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Dean I am not sure I understand what you are saying, how will I do this. Take off the wing nuts and turn the tops in. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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