Who Currently Makes The Best Damm Speakers

[mike stehr]

Hell, I just worry about eatin'.....

[jt1stcav]

Hell, I just worry about eatin'.....

So do I now...not so back in the day when the money was flowin' like milk from a cash-cow (whatever the hell that means).

[oldtimer]

gilbert you probably owe it to yourself to go to indy and see the palladium presentation if you can. As others have said, there is at least one german hifi mag that has placed them high on their list and competing or bettering many more expensive speakers.

[jacksonbart]

The Devil, but you will have to sell your soul and hand over $17,999.99 to hear them.

[dkp]

Besides Klipsch, I would listen to a pair of VMPS RM-40s or the Elixirs. Both sound exceptional, IMHO.

[thebes]

the 2 pair that are on my list this month are:

Klipsch Palladium or

I sure do hope they sound good. No offense, for beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but those are about the plug ugliest speakers I've ever seen. They look like some demented abortion of a moderne massage chair. Sorry man, but they give me the hebe-Theebees.

If you buy them maybe you could put a bag over their heads.

[Gilbert]

I hear yea OT. I'm not positive, and I do beleive I could live with their looks in my room for a long long time. Certainly prettier than those fugly Jub's (sorry guys, I just hate the way they look). I also like the looks of those JBL's, but at a MSRP $30k, we're talking a Mt. Everest of prices.

One way or another, I'm going to have to listen to a few of the speakers mentioned so far, B&K, JBL, Palladium ....???? Next time I'm in Dallas, I'll have to sample them. Tulsa's pretty limited.

Thebes, I you gotten to see them personally? I kinda thought they were okay, at least the one I saw on the Klipsch site. Hmmmm, I'd better take another look, I may of looked at something else this morning.....

Hmmm, found a better picture, but I still think their acceptable. They certainly don't grab me like the Belle or Cornwalls though. Stareing at the front, it does kinda ave that cheap, "Made in Taiwan or China" look about it. Not sure if it's the picture or maybe it's the horn's plastic looking body or those funky woofers. They can be grilled can't they?

[kev313]

Said it before and I still think it's true...U-G-L-Y. Maybe with a black front (I particularly dislike to alternating grain patterns of the veneer) the hideous effect of square horns vs. round cones disaster could be mitigated. A softening of the angle of the front top of the speaker to better match the boat tail rear would also be helpful. I've never been a fan of that particular veneer either...it reminds me of some Onix Rocket HT spears I used to have. While I have not seen the Palladiums personally, at this point I would say that the Onix cheapies (really rather good construction and veneer work) pull of the luxe look better than the Klipsches. I know it is the sound that is supposed to count and I have every expectation that these will be great, but I'm pretty sure, based on the marketing copy, that great sound was only one of the design objectives. These Palladiums look like they are going 7 different directions at the same time. Well you know what they say about opinions, but for my money, in the Design Ultimate Fighting Championship, designed objects for interior spaces weight class, Charles Eames knocked the Palladium designer down and Ray came to poop in his/her face.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Hey Tiger, I know you had a pair of Khorns for some time. Would you say that the Khorns fall Short or Way Short of the B&W setup?

It depends on your taste. Kai Chao, a member here has both Klipschorns and N800's and he prefers the Klipschorns (I think that he has a Tractrix midrange horn and Crites or JBL tweeters). He said that in his system and in his room, the modified K Horns are superior. That says a lot for the modded K Horns.

I had stock K Horns with a Yamaha D2040 active crossover and triamped with 2 Teac L700's and a QSC 1202. The K Horns were outstanding speakers, but different, the soundstage was flat and arch shaped meaning that there was a void area in the middle and from about ear level down. I don't mean to be too critial but you asked. For the money they are an outstanding bargain and my introduction to high end audio.

The N801's, with the right amps, preamp and source, do quite a bit more. For example, even though I do not get involved in cables (I make my own interconnects from Mogami Quad and use Kimber 4pr that I got in 1984 for speaker cables), I have tried cables that others have lent me and yes, you can definately hear a difference. When you turn the N801's up, it just gets louder, voices and instruments do not get bigger and the tone does not change or get shrill. The detail is amazing. On certain recording you can actually tell when mics are turned on, you can tell if a singer was recorded in a separate room and can tell where the boundaries of the room are (which is kind of strange sounding). I always thought that the K Horns were very detailed, but this is a whole new level. You can sense the air between the instruments and the depth of the soundstage. During complex passages the speakers do not break up. All of the detail seems to stay together and not smear. Jazz recordings are just awesome. The new stuff is not compressed and really well recorded.

Voices sound very natural. Pink Floyd's The Wall is a great example, when they are in the rock star's room and the girl is talking it sounds like she is there. There is another part where someone is knocking on a door and saying "time to go" You would swear that he was in the next room and knocking on the wall. The smashing noises are very realistic too. I imagine these speakers will make a great high end home theater. The buyer of my N801's is going to use them for just that, with N802's and all Krell amps. It should be amazing.

I look forward to the Signature 800's. They have 2 10" woofers instead of a single 15" and they use very upgraded crossovers, using all poly caps and litz inductors. I replaced a tweeter diaphragm on a Matrix 801 today. The cabinet is unreal. The Matrix enclosure is braced in every direction several times and teh foam is al cut to exact size and fitted in. It looks like there is so much work in maing these. I should add that the Matrix do not sound that natural. I think that The Nautilus were a big upgrade.

I also considered Wilson Watt Puppy 7's but did not want to change out my entire system again. I should note that Wilson owners on Audiogon informed me that my Musical Fidelity, Bryston, JL Audio and B&W equipment is "Mid fi" and all of it should be changed. This happens on every level.

If you are looking to add a different breed to the stable the Revel Saloons were just outstanding speakers at CES. Almost everything there sounded harsh and bright. The Wilsons sounded good with a huge amount of VTL equipment that was re-tubed for CES. The Revels were in a room where these guys were selling chip amp boards. They built some amps and had the Revels on loan and just set up in a corner of a room. They were probably the best that we heard that day. The Revels are pricy (about $20,000).

I also was interested in Eggleston Andras. Never heard them but they were Stereophile's speaker of the year in 1997 and they never advertise. A lot of owners swear that they are better than the Wilson WP8's and many have switched from the WP's to the Andras. Von Schwaggart are also supposed to be great and their older stuff is supposed to be a bargain. Aerial 10's are also supposed to be a bargain. I was looking at a pair of Aerial 20T's. If you want to stick with horns, I had a Japanese gentleman who was selling a pair of Wilsons recommedn JBL Array 1400's. There is a seller on ebay that has them for a good price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-PRO-ARRAY-SYSTEM-1400-ARRAY-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ220206444962QQihZ012QQcategoryZ47094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Of course, the Klipsch Palladiums will be available soon. I was actually amazed at how much competition there is in the $10,000 to $20,000 range. At CES it seemed that everyone has speakers in this price range. I have never heard of most of them. Klipsch should be able to penetrate deep into this market because they are so well financed and well known. In the 80's Klipsch Heritage was high end. Their real direct competition is B&W, the other large manufacturer with various product lines and Wilson, smaller company just selling high end but selling a lot of it. Klipsch is jumping in a a much lower price (the B&W 800 Series goes up to $24,000 and their statement speaker, the Nautilus is $60,000, Wilson is $16,000 for their Sophia up to something like $150,000 for the Alexandria).

I stuck with the B&W's because I know them and always lusted after the S800's. Plus I know my system with B&W's so I know that an equipment change is not necessary.

It is hard when you can't audition equipment. CES is a bad guide because so much sounds bad there. I took a leap of faith with my K Horns and then took advice here and created a great system. I also took a leap of faith on the N801's after being blown away by and buying a pair of B&W DM3000's (which were an unbelieveable bargain - their performance is amazing for the price).

Goog luck with your quest.

[Amy]

Said it before and I still think it's true...U-G-L-Y.

Yes, you have said it before, in several places []

Gilbert,

The photo you posted does not do them justice at all. In fact, I believe that is an early photoshop rendering put together before we had product ready for a photoshoot. You can see many more shots of the speakers if you click on the Photos section at the top of this page (in case you haven't seen them yet).

Good luck with your quest! I'll keep my obvious bias out of the conversation []

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I also considered Wilson Watt Puppy 7's but did not want to change out my entire system again. I should note that Wilson owners on Audiogon informed me that my Musical Fidelity, Bryston, JL Audio and B&W equipment is "Mid fi" and all of it should be changed. This happens on every level.

I wonder if I understand that paragraph. Were those people saying that UNLESS you move up to higher end gear the Wilsons would NOT sound better than the B&W? e.g. using your existing gear the B&W would sound better?

Mark,

They were saying that the Wilsons would not sound good with my gear because it is not high end enough. The Wilsons would reveal flaws. etc. Others said that the B&W's were good, the Brystons adequate and the rest mid fi junk. Maybe it is true. I did nto hear anything at CES that made me want to change, but all listening was short term and not under ideal conditions.

You see this in every hobby and on every level. On the B&W forum site, you have to have the newest speakers, and the Nautilus (designed in the 1990's) is the holy grail (which it may be, I have never heard it). One thing that is very interesting is that B&W is trashed everywhere. Here everyone says that it is overpriced and you can get more for the money (Jubilees). Elsewhere, it is condemned for being "mass produced" and not exclusive enough.

[fini]

"Better" is still pretty subjective. Consider an "upgrade" to a more revealing speaker. Maybe it "reveals" something the listener doesn't want to hear (perhaps a hum that wasn't noticed with less efficient speakers, as an example).

[TommyK]

So much depends on what you want the speakers to do. At some point, it becomes the trade-offs you prefer.

Best speaker for the 75 x 120 room in the McMansion? or 20x20 townhouse?

Best speaker that does 50% HT & 50% 2 channel?

Best speaker that only plays Summer 1972, Spring 1977 and Fall 1979 Gratefule Dead 1 gen FOBs?

Best speaker that wont strain the marriage?

Best speaker that makes Mary Gautheir stand 3 feet from you so you can smell the Black Label JD on her breathe?

Best speaker that sings with 3 watts?

peace,
TommyK

[Paladin]

So much depends on what you want the speakers to do. At some point, it becomes the trade-offs you prefer.

Best speaker for the 75 x 120 room in the McMansion? or 20x20 townhouse?

Best speaker that does 50% HT & 50% 2 channel?

Best speaker that only plays Summer 1972, Spring 1977 and Fall 1979 Gratefule Dead 1 gen FOBs?

Best speaker that wont strain the marriage?

Best speaker that makes Mary Gautheir stand 3 feet from you so you can smell the Black Label JD on her breathe?

Best speaker that sings with 3 watts?

peace,
TommyK

...Exactly...

In my house huge floorstanders aren't necessary. I'm using bookshelves and a pair of small subs. If I had a large dedicated listening room things might be different.

For example if I were to put my Father's SoundLab M-1's in my 17x14 living room, besides not having room for much else, (M1 panels are 3 feet wide and 7 feet tall), they would overplay the room badly. They work fine in his 15x30 listening room however.

BTW: Amy's right. You really need to see the Palladiums if the pictures aren't doing it for you. They're really quite beautiful.

What's more fun is to hear them...

I personally don't care what it looks like if it sounds good...but then WAF currently isn't an issue for me.

[sunnysal]

jy1stcav took the words right 'outta my mouth. If I didnt have my k-horns I would have a big set of maggies....I think they soundgreat! the only downside for maggies is that they require a ton of amplifier watts. Spend $15-18k on cone speakers? not me thanks, I am happy where I am, I simply like the sound of horns. If I invest that much in a speaker it will be a Jub.or some DIYish horn rig, perhaps after the kids are out of college. warm regards, Tony

[DrWho]

Easy. Klipsch Palladium!

When did you hear the Palladium?!? [] Did I miss a review of their sound somewhere?

[Guest srobak]

Martin Logan ReQeust + nice sub (maybe SVS, Klipsch or ML)

[jt1stcav]

jy1stcav took the words right 'outta my mouth. If I didnt have my k-horns I would have a big set of maggies....I think they soundgreat! the only downside for maggies is that they require a ton of amplifier watts. Spend $15-18k on cone speakers? not me thanks, I am happy where I am, I simply like the sound of horns. Invest that much in a Jub.or some DIYish horn rig, perhaps after the kids are out of college.

Thanks, Tony. Like you, I'm happy where I'm at, and I'd still love to own La Scalas or Klipschorns someday. Had I not lost my job and went bankrupt years ago and gone in a different audio direction like I did with SET, I would've kept my high-powered SS McIntosh amp (or traded up) and later invested in a high-end tube linestage from McIntosh, Manley, conrad-johnson, BAT, or Audio Research to name a few...and big Magnepans! Who knows what the future may bring...I just might go in that direction again! As much as I love SET and horns, I love inefficient, power-hungry Maggies just as much (if not more)!

[kaiser SET say]

Jubs

B&W Nautilus 802's (Non Diamond)

Maggie 1.6's

All with solid upstrem gear[]

[Erik Mandaville]

5th graders!