High End Speakers do Sound High End

[ClaudeJ1]

Nicely put ClaudeJ1, though I'm not sure I fit your profile of a Palladium buyer!

One thing I sometimes have trouble with is the hammering on the "fully horn loaded" dogma. Yes, historically the top of the line Klipsch has always been fully horn loaded. For those who were at the 2008 Pilgrimage, recall Jim Hunter stating the never-changing principles by which Klipsch engineers have always designed speakers. He spoke of low distortion, efficiency, etc. None of those goals were "to put horns in stuff". It just so happens that because of the laws of physics horns are a cheap and direct way of attaining these goals. When you want to get performance out of smaller enclosure, 3 woofers instead of folded horn, etc you are fighting physics and have to spend a lot more money to get where you want to be. In my interview with the esteemed Mr. Hunter, he said there's no way Paul wouldn't be proud of the Palladium.

About your first sentence, ......there is always room for the exceptional, present company included.

On the second part, it was Keele (who's worked for all the big names, including Klipsch) that showed where 4 direct radiators had the same efficiency, broader bandwidth, and similar distortion, as a horn of similar cubic feet of SPACE. But with 4 drivers, you skewer the polars that are so easily accomplished in the horn........trade offs galore.

If you can tolerate the BIG UGLY, like I have, I guarantee, that, market appeal notwithstanding, that my latest hybrid system with MWMS bottoms housing Four 15" K-33's to 150 Hz., large, 110 poud mid-bass horns with phase plugs and bulletproof 12" drivers covering 150-1,000Hz, 25 pound upper mid drivers with 2" throats and CD large CD horns covering 1-6Kz. and the heavy supertweeters.........would trounce the Palladiums in a soundoff competition for low distortion, dynamic range, efficiency, you name it................................so, while I really like the sound of the Palladiums because they represent the best refinement of the speaker "type," But you would have to have it in a bigger room to sit further back, so even there it's a trade-off. It's hard to beat an all horn system with a natural efficiency of 108-112db in the drivers when you you can move the same air with 1/10 the power requirements and no dynamic compression and any level, as long as you have balanced the network.

Isn't it nice that all of the Klipsch choices are good in their respective trade-offs?

[Don Richard]

And the snooty high end audiophile types seem to be taking notice - don't know why so many audiophile types couldn't accept how great the Klipschorns have been all these decades but at least now they're taking notice of the Palladium.

Because people like Robert Harley of TAS say that Khorns have "colored sound", whatever that means, and the lemmings follow the piper to the sea. I recently had the owner of a high end audio salon tell me the same thing, so I asked him if he had heard any of the newer horns to which he replied, "they sound the same". Funny, because exponentials, tractrixes, ind CD horns all sound different from each other to me.

The new Palladium series fits the modern speaker design paradigm, so it might get reviewed by TAS. And I expect that they will say it would be better if the HF horns it uses were replaced by a Scanspeak Revelator tweeter, or a ribbon, or something (anything?) beside a horn.

[damonrpayne]

Yeah,

There is clearly still an amazing level of horn bias out there. I take comfort that it seems to come not from engineers but dooshbag HiFi shop elitists.

[Hifi jim]

And the snooty high end audiophile types seem to be taking notice - don't know why so many audiophile types couldn't accept how great the Klipschorns have been all these decades but at least now they're taking notice of the Palladium. 

 

Because people like Robert Harley of TAS say that Khorns have "colored sound", whatever that means, and the lemmings follow the piper to the sea. I recently had the owner of a high end audio salon tell me the same thing, so I asked him if he had heard any of the newer horns to which he replied, "they sound the same". Funny, because exponentials, tractrixes, ind CD horns all sound different from each other to me.

The new Palladium series fits the modern speaker design paradigm, so it might get reviewed by TAS. And I expect that they will say it would be better if the HF horns it uses were replaced by a Scanspeak Revelator tweeter, or a ribbon, or something beside a horn.

 

The dealer I bought my kg4's from snickered at my "PA" speaker choice when I returned years later. Of course they were not selling Klipsch anymore, and they referred to my NAD amp as "NearlyAlwaysDefective". Another brand I bought from them, and you guessed it they no longer carried. Unfortunately, most salesman will find a way to bash the competition. Klipsch are an easy target because they are horn loaded and not because they have the ugly traits that some horn designs suffer.

[IndyKlipschFan]

I take comfort that it seems to come not from engineers but dooshbag HiFi shop elitists.

Ya think??? hahahahahahaha

And of course what "they carry" or what "they read" about, or heard once 20 years ago in a super secret lab.. is always better than what YOU have! hahahahahahaha

IMO..... Intellectually constipated audiophiles are the worst.... hehehehehehehe

[IndyKlipschFan]

Unless you have a terrible room, and your only choice of music is Marie Osmond.. with "Paper Roses" ???

Your gonna do fine..to incredible with Palladiums LOL

[HarryO]

"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not."--Nelson Pass

[arfandbark]

It's ice cream, Harry.

[IndyKlipschFan]

damonrpayne has got Palladiums, and you don't!

NA na na na na naaaaaaaaaaaaaa!! You poopieheadjenkins!!

Whew, I feel much better now, supporting my friends!

[seti]

The horn bias is so much fun especially at hi-fi shops. When I said I had klipsch the sales guy immediately cupped his hands to his face and said "how do I sound now?". I looked at him like he had an arm growing out of his butt and asked him if he could please try again but this time try to make a perfect exponential or tractrix curve with his hands. I've said it a number of times but Klipsch should really revive the Dope From Hope mailers.

[damonrpayne]

As some people on this forum know, I'm always up for a heated confrontational argument. I've gotten into it big-time with some stereo arse-whipes around here. If I can quote too many facts or say something they don't understand I usually get the "Well, you're just showing how inexperienced you are" talk; yeah, I still get carded for booze and these guys are not going to let some "young" punk tell them what's what. Yeah, I'm about to turn 31 but I can tell when someone thinks I'm 19. My response on my way out is something like "Your supporting evidence is called 'argument from authority' and is a logical fallacy you wouldn't get away with in a high school debate club. But since YOU brought your age up relative to mine, I'd say the fact that you are so old and experienced also means you're hearing is rolling off terribly and you should really trust my opinion since I can hear and you can't"

There's a particular place on Sunset in Waukesha (ole boomac knows it) that I'm not welcome in anymore...

I doubt Dope from Hope would sway guys like this, since Dope contains "facts" and that ain't where these folks draw their inferences.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

All the anti horn people drive me nuts. They hear a horn with a bad source and immediately all horns are bad. Or even worse, they read about it and then they kare an expert. Like any revelaing speaker, you need a good source. I never had anyone not be impressed when I had K Horns and Belles.

This happens everywhere in the strange hobby. People with less expensive speakers say that my speakers are too expensive, people with more expensive speakers say that mine are not exclusive enough, and people with the same brand say that mine are 5 years old and outdated because they do not have the new tweeter. Personally, I really like my 20 year old DM3000's that are pretty obscure.

At the end of the day, I loved my horns, I love my bass reflex speakers and I have heard planars that were outstanding. This all reminds me of bench racing when I was in my early 20's. Ford, Chevy and Mopar debate.

[Coytee]

Unless you have a terrible room, and your only choice of music is Marie Osmond.. with "Paper Roses" ???

Somehow, someday...I'll get you back... [*-)]

[Don Richard]

The horn bias is so much fun especially at hi-fi shops. When I said I had klipsch the sales guy immediately cupped his hands to his face and said "how do I sound now?".

This seems to be the big thing to do in the audio salons. When one such salesman asked me , "How does this sound?" I replied "Like you're not making any sense."

I've said it a number of times but Klipsch should really revive the Dope From Hope mailers.

Yes, yes, yes!

[Islander]

I still get carded for booze and these guys are not going to let some "young" punk tell them what's what. Yeah, I'm about to turn 31 but I can tell when someone thinks I'm 19.

I know what you mean. Some people (for whom I have no respect) would treat me like a teenager, until I finally got grey hair. Better to be thought too young than to be thought too old.

[ClaudeJ1]

So why are you guys even going to "hi fi" stores? I visit one about every 10 years when I need something I think they might have (they never do), but then I end up buying it on Ebay or Amazon.

You already know all about Klipsch speakers from here and you have some already, so why bother with higher priced (and chaper to make) direct radiators that need more watts to produce more distortion at greater cost?

Maybe you all need to visit the Monty Python Argument Clinic?

This isn't and argument...............Yes, it is!

[Don Richard]

So why are you guys even going to "hi fi" stores?

The one I go to has a lot of remastered CDs and audiophile vinyl at good prices, and I can listen before I buy.

Plus I get to mess with the salesmen.[6]

[J M O N]

This thread seems to have gotten off track. Anyone know what this is:

[dtel]

Sure,........a huge pile of $.

[seti]

So why are you guys even going to "hi fi" stores? I visit one about every 10 years when I need something I think they might have (they never do), but then I end up buying it on Ebay or Amazon.

You already know all about Klipsch speakers from here and you have some already, so why bother with higher priced (and chaper to make) direct radiators that need more watts to produce more distortion at greater cost?

Maybe you all need to visit the Monty Python Argument Clinic?

This isn't and argument...............Yes, it is!

Actually I go to hifi shops to hear gear I can't afford. Like the B&W 800D 32Hz - 28kHz 90DB@1w powered by a complete McIntosh system. They also let me listen to SACD in 7.1 surround. It was a killer system.