Dylanl Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I am currently running a new to me emotive Erato preamp, Dynaco MkIII tube amps and SS McIntosh MC2300 to the bass bins. After all my upgrades I can still hear a slight hiss and hum coming from the horns and base bins. I know its from the sensitivity of the speaker but is there anyone out there that has DEAD quiet Khorns and tubes? Q. How can I test to see how much noise is coming from the amp vs Pre? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I have a Baldwin Will Vincent, which is nearly dead quiet: I once had an older Aragon SS amp that had more noise floor than this tube amp. However, Mark is correct and the trade off is well worth it. I've just got through A-B ing with Solid state monoblocks and the Baldwin...everytime, the Baldwin wins...no pre-amp...Variable out CD. BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplummer Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 If the noise floor issue is enough to make you go SS, make sure you get a amp/pre with balanced outputs. My sunfire rig didn't become dead quiet until I threw away the rca jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I hate to disagree with Mark, especially since he's been involved designing and manufacturing some of the finest audio components around, but my Luxman MB3045 are dead quiet, audibly more quiet than the Crown D-60's I usually use for everyday non-critical use. The MB3045, of course, must have reasonably strong tubes and be properly biased and DC balance set properly - a tedious task to say the least. However, they are quieter. In fact, I'm hard pressed to hear any noise from them when turned all the way up and my ear to the grill cloth. The D-60's can be heard anywhere in the room. The Audio Research preamp, now that's something else. ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss But I like to think of it as a "good" ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss because there's so much of ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Hum or hiss bothers me Also ! My Altec/Khorns are dead quiet with all of my SET amps. 45,2A3 and 300B ---- I have an active Tube Pre-amp with 3 prong plug and the last bit of hum was caused by a ground loop. Small noise but it was there. Removed the Ground loop by lifting the ground. Dead Silent !!! I had attributed this hum to tubes, but it had nothing to do with tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Both my Scotts/Cornwalls are dead quiet when the volume is all the way down.[] Not so when the volume is turned up. My VRDs/BBX/Khorns have hiss even with no volume. It doesn't bother me at all and I can't hear it with music playing. I use cheater plugs and had my electrician install stand-alone outlets for my system and there is still noise. I haven't tried lifting the ground. It's too heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 I am going to go out and buy a few cheater plugs tomorrow and see what I can do. I thought I read somewhere that there is a correct way to wire the chasis together from a common ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 My Altec/Khorns are dead quiet with all of my SET amps. 45,2A3 and 300B Do you have DC on the 2A3s? I still use the A/C balance pot on the Moondogs, so there is a little hum, but not enough to bother me. I can't hear any hiss at the listening position, from the mid or tweeter.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 If the noise floor issue is enough to make you go SS, make sure you get a amp/pre with balanced outputs. My sunfire rig didn't become dead quiet until I threw away the rca jacks. I had a slight hum from my computer soundcard to my receiver until I switched to Digital (optical cable) audio, versus an adapter from my soundcard to my receiver....... Now dead quiet....... Off topic a bit; but thought it might be relevant,,,, Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I don't have any direct experience with Khorns but Quicksilver makes a pair of mono blocks just for horn loudspeakers, I'll assume it's to address this very issue. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 My Altec/Khorns are dead quiet with all of my SET amps. 45,2A3 and 300B Do you have DC on the 2A3s? I still use the A/C balance pot on the Moondogs, so there is a little hum, but not enough to bother me. I can't hear any hiss at the listening position, from the mid or tweeter.Bruce I still have A/C on the Moondogs. I do use a Cheater Plug them however. I can't hear any hum or hiss with my ear up to the Altec Horn. Without the ground lifted however, there is a slight hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I am going to go out and buy a few cheater plugs tomorrow and see what I can do. I thought I read somewhere that there is a correct way to wire the chasis together from a common ground? If you have a 3 prong Plug Amp and a 3 prong plug Pre-amp, tying these chassis together will probably creat another ground loop. Most people recommend transmission filters on the cables, but they are not cheap ($200) - A safer way is to use a cheater plug and then put a GFCI on the Circuit that the cheater plug is plugged into. I have a GFCI on the Circuit Panel that controls the circuit that my amps are plugged into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Dylanl, Thanks for making me feel like I am no longer the only one...I have asked and pleaded, people have tried, really tried to help. I have changed Tubes, tried cheater plugs, tried spike protectors, straight to the wall socket, put them on different circuits, sent them back to be retested and lately have not enjoyed my most expensive Tube set up because of this...I really had the impression that I was the only one who would get this "noise" (I don't know the proper term and I have mistakenly used the wrong one in the past)...maybe now I can relax and just enjoy the music...hopefully you can too... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Dylanl, Thanks for making me feel like I am no longer the only one...I have asked and pleaded, people have tried, really tried to help. I have changed Tubes, tried cheater plugs, tried spike protectors, straight to the wall socket, put them on different circuits, sent them back to be retested and lately have not enjoyed my most expensive Tube set up because of this...I really had the impression that I was the only one who would get this "noise" (I don't know the proper term and I have mistakenly used the wrong one in the past)...maybe now I can relax and just enjoy the music...hopefully you can too... Bill Some Tube amps will hum and that is the best you can do. It may be a design flaw of the manufacturer and there is nothing that you can do. However, if there is someone else that owns the same amps as you do and can get them quiet with just as efficient speakers, you can too. It's a matter of isolating the problem. What kind of amp and pre-amp are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 My two systems (see profile) exhibit a small amount of tube hiss in the totality of thier respective installations, but it's small - only audible by straining to hear it from the listening position, and usually that's in the near 100% absence of any other ambient sounds. I usually have to walk up to the speakers to hear it. This did require paying attention to ground loop (in one case), and having quiet tubes in the preamp position of these gears, but the smidge of tube hiss I do get is totally acceptable given the spectacular musicality and midrange present in these systems. My primary "tough customer" is my JuicyMusic preamp, due to the "no negative feedback" design, but it's a small maintenance to put up with given the superb sonics I'm getting otherwise. Not a complaint, mind you - in fact, I think so much of that preamp I'm gonna get another one. I wouldn't go back to solid state to get rid of that small amount of "hiss" or "rush" - or for any other reason[8-|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Thanks for making me feel like I am no longer the only one...I have asked and pleaded, people have tried, really tried to help. I have changed Tubes, tried cheater plugs, tried spike protectors, straight to the wall socket, put them on different circuits, sent them back to be retested and lately have not enjoyed my most expensive Tube set up because of this...I really had the impression that I was the only one who would get this "noise" (I don't know the proper term and I have mistakenly used the wrong one in the past)...maybe now I can relax and just enjoy the music...hopefully you can too... Bill, I'm sorry you're having that problem. What exactly is the noise -- low-pitched hum, or high-pitched hiss? I thought the BB and VRDs were supposed to be a pretty quiet combination.I have a low level, but not absent, combined hum AND buzz in my system. I've just discovered that most of this is caused by a dimmer switch for the overhead lights off in the next room. I have to switch off those lights in order to not have audible buzz in my system. I don't know why I hadn't thought of that before. Anyway, low-pitched hum may be a different problem from high-pitched hiss. Which do you have? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Noise can even travel from house to house! Do you realize what you have done with this single statement [:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Noise can even travel from house to house! Do you realize what you have done with this single statement My neighbors behind me in the mobile home made all kinds of noise when they would fight. Until I got insulated windows, it often leaked into my house. Fortunately, they moved away... [:^)]On a serious note, that is one of the reasons a lot of systems sound better in the middle of the night. The world is a quieter place. No solar activity, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I have Craig's NOSValve VRDs with Mark's Juicy Music BlueBerry updated with the super tube and a Heart CD player running through (presently) a panamax to the AK-4 Klipschorns...I'm not fixing any blame and I don't believe what I'm hearing is the fault of the gear...I don't even notice it while music is playing...just when idle...LarryC...I think it is something similar to what you describe with yours...when my gear has been back to their creators they checked quiet so I know it's at my place but it can be frustrating to the point that I don't enjoy this set up near as much as others... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 My Scott preamp has a very slight hiss. My Dynaco amps have a very slight hum. I really only notice when everything is dead quiet. . I installed an eight foot copper earth ground dedicated to the audio gear, but that did nothing to help. As a reference, the central A/C in the house is much, much more noisy when the blower is running. BTW, the slight noise with K-horns completely disappears when the same gear is used with Cornwalls. K-horns are unforgiving beasts that reveal every detail. But hey, that's why we must have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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