psg Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I would consider the best starting position to be what PWK recommended for any speaker, deep into the corners and toed in. For horn speakers, I believe he suggested being in a position in which you can look down the throat of the mid horn and tweeter. +1 !! I can't believe how close together those LSII are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I can't believe how close together those LSII are! Could be closer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 This is exactly what I was refering to Pat when I said it helps to think about the wavelengths being reproduced as a guide to decide if steps and other physical disturbances will cause problems. In your case the K510 is being asked to reproduce wavelengths from approximately (400hz = 33.9") to (17khz = .79") and at the lower end of this range the stands and their steps will have little if any effect but as the stands and steps dimmensions begin to approach a significant fraction of the wavelengths being reproduced and reflected from these physical disturbances anomalies will be observed. Your improved stands look to be well designed to reduce some of these anomalies. My point with the 3/4" step in the original LS's LF is that it is insignificant compared to the wavelengths involved and also considering it's distance location along the path length of the horn. What will make the original LS's LF horn match the improved LS II's LF horn is bracing of the side walls because just applying some eq at this resonance point will never equal stoping the resonance from developing in the first place. I still remember and appreciate the help you gave me when I first got the 510s and the Dx38, and my knowledge is still no match for yours, but that's what I'm hearing, and it's completely consistent every day. Pat I hope you aren't thinking I'm questioning the improvements that your hearing because in fact I would expect exactly the sound reproduction improvements your system is delivering for you. In fact I believe your total system's design of using a Sub, LS II's LF, K510 and Active Crossover is an excellent one. miketn Thanks for the compliments, Mike! The system was sounding really good, and replacing the La Scalas with La Scala IIs provided a big improvement, even bigger than I had expected. I'm really liking what I'm hearing now, and I was very happy before. The improvement in looks was a pleasant bonus. Some of the detail changes I've mentioned make pretty subtle changes in the sound. It's kind of splitting hairs in some instances. However, the LS bass horn has a couple of issues that people seem to confuse. One issue is that the sidewalls are not as stiff as they could be, so there can be a resonance at certain frequencies. I've never heard a sound related to that. Maybe it can only be heard during extremely high volume listening. It's not as if the horn sidewalls rattle like buzzy sheetmetal. Rather than generating sound, the 3/4" plywood sides absorb some sound. Trying to solve that issue with EQ would not be sensible or practical. The second issue is unrelated to the first. There is a narrow peak in the response, centred at 148 Hz. This is due to the shape of the horn. The proof of that is that it also is produced by the LS2 bass horn, in spite of its much stiffer 1" MDF sidewalls. Unlike the resonance produced by the original LS horn, this peak is easily audible with certain music. It can be corrected by EQ, and it wasn't hard to tell when the peak was gone. To sum up, the stiffer LS2 sidewalls reduce or eliminate the normally inaudible resonance, and since the stiffer sidewalls don't absorb sound like the more flexible original LS sidewalls do, the LS2 has stronger bass response and a slightly higher sensitivity number. The 148 Hz peak is still there, and Roy recognizes this in that his Dx38 settings are the same for the original La Scala bass bin and the La Scala II bass bin. With both models, the peak can be eliminated with the proper application of EQ. I hope that clears up the confusion about La Scala (and LS2) bass horn issues. As for the original post, I hope arash has been able to sort out the issues with those La Scala IIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Ha ha! I can't believe how close together those LSII are! Could be closer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) it's been two weeks that first La Scala II speakers landed on our country. I was invited to see (hear) them as the most Klipschophile person in Iran. I went there, straight ahead. She (LS II) was setting there humbly. source was a CD player and Macintosh amplifier and some tough speaker cables. acoustic of the room was so so. not bad. I've been given the best seat, front row, center. Sound: they sounded sooooo bad, I couldn't imagine what was happening! they even didn't get any clone to the sound of old LS and CW I got with much cheaper hand-made SE and cheap speaker cables! I don't know what happened! I'm just amazed. I think something was wrong, maybe Mcintosh was not right about LSIIs despite all the negative feedback in the listening session, I felt I had an moral obligation to defense Klipsch because I knew Klipsch is fine so I started to put the blame on the McIntosh. we set another appointment, this time I'm gonna take my own 2A3 3.5wpc SE tube amp there to connect them to LS: Some suggestions if you get to go back to listen again: 1) toe them in about 30 degrees or more toward the center. I can't believe that you heard any imaging from them in the present setup. 2) Move the right La Scala to the outside of all the other loudspeakers--into the corner on the right, and leave a gap of at least one metre between it and the next loudspeaker on the inside flank. The La Scala on the left could use two one or two tower loudspeakers to the outside of it. Make sure both La Scalas are toed-in at the same angle. 3) Throw soft fuzzy blankets or quilts over each side of the center electronics rack... (I'm sure they're going to love doing that... ). 4) Put more absorption down on the floor...a lot more--directly in front of each loudspeaker. If you've got some acoustic absorption squares in your possession, bring them along with you so that you can place one on the outside of the La Scalas on the side walls, perhaps a few on the floor. 5) Watch the expression change on the face of the owner when you turn it up using a recording of some quality that you're familiar with that works well with La Scalas, i.e., no really deep bass in the recording. Note that the other loudspeakers will also sound better if they are afforded the same care and attention to (room acoustics) detail. Chris Edited April 18, 2016 by Chris A 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Wow... back from the dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 uh....old stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 i didn't read where someone had enumerated potential fixes for the problem above my response. Since I hadn't read the thread beforehand when it was active, when I saw that someone was reading this thread today, I figured now was as good a time as any to add it. There seems to be a lot of activity in the forum of people reading old threads, if you weren't aware of it... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallywagger77 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 This has been a great read so far but its like when the suspense is peaked I discovered the final chapter must be missing. All along I was thinking voltage issues for whatever its worth. Was the mystery ever resolved???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 The advise Chris gave was warranted, you could tell just by looking at the setup those LS II's would not sound great. Better late than never i say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 oh it's an old story. the polarity of one of the woofers were inverse (I had not connected them it was a friend's speaker) leading to weak bass. the placement was also wrong as you mentioned. the McIntosh stuff also sounded crappy IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 the polarity of one of the woofers were inverse Nailed it in post #2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallywagger77 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 As Paul Harvey would have said---And now you know, the rest of the story. Way to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Did someone make sure that there wasn't anything wired out of phase? Solving the world's problems, one post at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 i didn't read where someone had enumerated potential fixes for the problem above my response. Since I hadn't read the thread beforehand when it was active, when I saw that someone was reading this thread today, I figured now was as good a time as any to add it. There seems to be a lot of activity in the forum of people reading old threads, if you weren't aware of it... Chris I do this from time to time. I will find an interesting thread in Google search and read a couple posts then start to write out a reply before seeing its from 2011... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) oh it's an old story. the polarity of one of the woofers were inverse (I had not connected them it was a friend's speaker) leading to weak bass. the placement was also wrong as you mentioned. the McIntosh stuff also sounded crappy IMO "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? To Arash, our Iranian cousin, the above joke is a reference to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln on 14 April 1865 during the play, Our American Cousin, at Ford's Theatre in Washington, DC. PS: I suspected woofer polarity all along, but I confess I first read this today and failed to note the 2013 start. Edited April 18, 2016 by DizRotus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Did someone make sure that there wasn't anything wired out of phase? Solving the world's problems, one post at a time. Seems I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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