Mc_Lascala_240 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hey All I am new to the forum. In the past month I have made a lot of changes. I acquired 1980 La Scalas, which replaced my heresy's. I have did the usual upgrades to the speakers. I have Crites sonic cap AA cross over rebuild and his steal stamped woofers, which both had a big improvement over the tired motor run caps and damaged original woofers. My stereo components are... -Recapped Mcintosh mc240 amp -Recapped Mcintosh MX-110z tuner pre -Marantz CD5004 cd player My La Scala came with the k77 round magnet tweeters, very closely matched in sensitivity and in very good shape. In the past 2 weeks I have tried different tweeters upgrades from two different sources. Reason, I am doing this, is because there lacks any direct review of the these two tweeters here or in Audiokarma.org. To start of, I do like the K77 round magnet tweeters, Dynamics and attack are very good! It has PWK sound. Other opinion or preferences from others, there sharp sounding, honky, percinig, stressed. That could change drastically by your other components in the system or recordings. K77 as we all know has it limitations, Run out of steam at 12k-14k, Can't take much power etc. Now the reason I was looking for a tweeter upgrade was to find a less harsh 10k-20k end. As I said before I do like the K77 but I could hear the weaknesses. For 2 weeks I looking at my tweeter options that was a internal drop in replacement. I read both of the sources sites, looking at the forums for positive reviews and negative reviews. I won't be comparing these new tweeters head to head but compare them both to the k77 tweeter. First I'll start with installation and physical quality Crites CT-125 I am going to start with the CT-125 because it is the mostly mentioned and most popular upgrade in the forum. When I got in them in the mail they looked well-built and were literally a drop in replacement, no wires to attach or odd screws or adapter or anything. Really made it easy to install. Bolt in, hook to the cross over and done! It made my speakers look original. Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter When I got the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter in the mail. They were well packed, little more tightly and safely then the CT-125. You could see an high quality of the drivers, Heavy and very compact, sleek looking. The new designed horn looked pretty cool, well carved out of wood. These were little more involved to install, the horn had original holes and two new side holes so you could mount with new holes or use your originals. I used the the originals. But the Screws from the k77 horn were way to short! I made a 15 min trip to home depot got some longer screws and few slid on ends. I took the tweeter wire off the k77 and mounted the slide on ends on the original tweeter cable, hooked it all up. Not as much of a drop in installation as the CT-125. Figure out the wires and get longer screws. A beer went long with this installation. With the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter the horn is flush with the cabnet has a nice finished design. Gives the speaker little bit of an updated look. I used Paul Simon, Fleetwood mac and Santana as references. Remember sound differences are compared to k77 not to each other. I am 29 have good hearing. My k77 tweeter little less sensitivity then the square k77m. Crites CT-125 Ok so it took me 15 min to install these bad boys, super easy. Warmed up my tubes, for 15 mins. Took a listen... It was totally different sound then k77. Listened to fleetwood mac, It was very smooth! That in your face klipsch sound was gone... Voices sounded mellow, instruments sounded smoother. I changed it to Santana, same result, K77 has the dynamic punch, hear the bell getting hit in the song right in front of you. With the Ct-125 it sounded feathery light. K77 was shot of vodka, Ct-125 was a sex on the beach. What I was hearing was less sensitivey, with a higher requency response. At the same time instruments sounded more distant, less dynamic. Midrange and bass became more present. Gave the speaker a whole warm fuzzy midrange bass feeling. Now for opinons, I listened to them for hours. I couldn't engage in the music anymore, Maybe as background music, lack of dynamics was very disappointing. I felt like I was listening to 1960's speaker, smooth mellow but not engaging, with higher highs just at lower volume. It wasn't a Klipsch anymore. I installed k77 in one speaker to compare in mono. Dynamic were back! feathery detail was gone, but rather have dynamics, Honestly I felt like the lower sensitivity gave it me an impression it couldn't keep up with rest of the speaker. I was happy with the bass with k77 so with the ct-125 too much of it. At first I couldn't believe how it sounded so different, I thought maybe something was wrong. Checked the wires etc.. Called the manufacture, about my impression and concern, didn’t get much help, Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter When I installed these guys I waited the 15 mins. I played Santana first. Wow it sounded like a klipsch speaker! Dynamic, had a natural balance, compared to the k77, voices were calmer. K77 everything sounded dynamic, with the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter was just as sensitive, honestly more dynamic as in it felt like these was a lot more depth. K77 would bark at you at times but the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter would choose when to be in your face or not based on the recording. Sound stage improved vastly over the k77 tweeters! I could hear breathing or mistakes in the musicians playing. It also had the light highs when then recorded called for it. Very good tweeter! If the k77 was a shot of strait vodka. The Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter was a fine 25 year old scotch smooth warm with a nice bite and sensce in depth flavors. Conclusion It's all about the music! Both make good products and have different view points and goals. Now the CT-125 is very well regarded tweeter! If your looking for a midrange bass rich speaker, very mellow, very far away from k77 ct125 is for you. But if your looking for dynamic klipsch sound, I like very dynamic speaker, I feel like the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter is a drop in replacement for that. It updates the k77 from 1957. Just like how sonic caps improved the motor run caps. Updated technology. I love this tweeter! I really can’t stop listening to my stereo now. Fatigue is gone but the dynamic are all there with all the extra details in the high end. In terms of price. I paid $220 for the Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeters CT-125 is $160. The B&C DE120 drivers $70-80 alone but the APT50's are $25-35 drivers. From a technical point there just more quailty in the B&C DE120 driver. Thanks Again Post some pictures soon!! 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Welcome to the forum. Great first post and review. I have to say though, you look more like Mr Bill than Mr Lascala 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Welcome to the forum! Good post and timely for me. I'm picking up a pair of LSI splits tomorrow. In addition to what will be a lot of cosmetic refurbishing I was thinking about upgrading the tweeters. The two you compared are at the top of my list. Appreciate you taking the time to experiment and share your findings. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I like the k77 better also. I really like the b&c driver that I have in my kpts. I might have to try that in my corns also. Thanks for the input and welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Where does one purchase the Eliptrac & B&C DE 120 tweeter? I too changed to the CT-125 and then back to the K-77M because it seemed some of the magic was missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc_Lascala_240 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hey Guys Thank you for nice comments and I'm glad I could help! Mr. Bill is the man! lol Let me know how those LSI splits work for you? I was looking at those! I was really looking for weeks trying to find something that would be newer improved k77. I didn't see any reviews on it or if was compared to to what else was out there. Thought i would give a review a try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc_Lascala_240 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 http://www.alkeng.com/ Click drivers upgrades and it's half way down the page. The Eliptrac & B&C DE 120 tweeter has the magic if you like the k77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I like the k77 better also. I really like the b&c driver that I have in my kpts. I might have to try that in my corns also. Thanks for the input and welcome. I have the Elliptrac HF and the B&C driver in one of my pairs of Corns. Very nice. I think you would enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Mc, nice! I like the sound of your system. You've chosen some great gear to refurb and I think you'll like the 5004, its what I'm using with a Jolida DAC. Keep on having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks for the detailed review. My K77Fs go to 16K, down maybe 2 to 3 dB as tested with REW at 16 feet (moving the microphone just a bit accounts for varying results). While there are a variety preferences out there, I like the K77s fine. If there is a problem with my Khorns and Belle, the problem is not the tweeters, but the midrange. Good sounding, but a little hard in the midrange, especially on bad recordings (usually CDs). I've had better luck with SACDs, and Blu-rays are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have tried different tweeters in my modified Khorns, and I found it necessary to have a way to attenuate the different tweeters to achieve optimal results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altonrex Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Hi! My first comment though I've been a member of the forum a couple of years now. This post helped me decide what tweeter to go with. I'm upgrading my tweets in my '78 Heresy's with the drop in horns Bob Crites is now offering using the DE 120 Compression Driver. I already re-capped them a couple of years back with the Crites kit. I'm really looking forward to the improved high end on my little rig: a fine old Kenwood KA-7002 I've owned since '74 with a Kenwood KD-3077 platter and a nice higher end Denon that will play any kind of dvd, cd, file/broadcast format etc. The Heresy's are my mains, and I use various speakers for imaging... two pair of vintage Tannoys: PBM-8's, and PBM-6.5's, and whatever I'm rescuing off the heap at the moment - currently a nice pair of Heathkit AS-10's I got from a guy who built them with his Dad in '68. The woofers in these puppy's are P10PF Jensen's and they're perfect. Rebuilding the x-overs now with new caps and replacing the ceramic resistors with metal oxide. One of these days when my cabin built I'll have enough room to talk about a set of Cornsala's... or Cornwall's. Thanks for the review! Edited December 30, 2017 by altonrex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 https://www.parts-express.com/bc-de120-1-neodymium-mylar-compression-driver-8-ohm-2-3-bolt--294-5809 http://www.fastlaneaudio.com/pricing.html Does Al price by the pair or individually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Mr. Bill nailed it....I have the CT125 tweeters in my Cornwalls, and they are more laid back sounding. I had a pair of (Eminence) Adire HF12 coaxials that used APT50 drivers for tweeters, and wasn't too thrilled with sound of those coaxials. The APT50 is okay sounding, but a cheap driver nonetheless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 10/9/2014 at 4:54 PM, Frzninvt said: Where does one purchase the Eliptrac & B&C DE 120 tweeter? I too changed to the CT-125 and then back to the K-77M because it seemed some of the magic was missing. THE CT-125 is very FLAT responding, but less efficient, so dropping the midrange by a tap and changing the capacitor to 1/2 the value will give you more bass and treble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, mike stehr said: Mr. Bill nailed it....I have the CT125 tweeters in my Cornwalls, and they are more laid back sounding. I had a pair of (Eminence) Adire HF12 coaxials that used APT50 drivers for tweeters, and wasn't too thrilled with sound of those coaxials. The APT50 is okay sounding, but a cheap driver nonetheless... Mike, The CT125 has NEVER used the driver you show in this post. That driver is pure junk. The CT125 uses a driver made by Tonsil in Poland. The one you show is a clone of the original Tonsil driver Eminence had made in Asia. Bob Crites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 My bad, apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 minute ago, mike stehr said: My bad, apologies. Actually that is Al's fault. You just repeated what he says on his website. He can't seem to get that figured out and make the correction on his website. Bob Crites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 minute ago, BEC said: Actually that is Al's fault. You just repeated what he says on his website. He can't seem to get that figured out and make the correction on his website. Bob Crites Okay. I have always been led to believe that the CT125 used a APT50. I think the Adire HF12 speaker kits used a modified APT50 driver.(little foam pads in the throat) The Adire kits were Eminence 12" woofer with APT50 tweeters. I didn't like the sound of them, and I like the sound of the CT125. Mine are laid back sounding, because I prefer crossing over at 6kHz instead of 4.5kHz. I listen near-field with Cornwalls, and prefer a less in your face tweeter sound. I tried both cut-off points, and preferred 6kHz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Well, this is a bit complicated. Originally the APT-50 Eminence sold was the Tonsil driver. So, yes I started out using the APT-50. When Eminence had a clone made of the Tonsil driver, they sent me a sample and it was junk, just plain not usable. So, I contacted Tonsil in Poland and had them make that original driver for me, so I have always used the Tonsil driver. The APT-50 that Eminence sells now is not interchangeable at all with the Tonsil driver. Even the mounting threads are different. Bob Crites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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