thebes Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 A more relaxed approach to vinyl. Article is from the New York Times in 2012. Enjoying Turntables Without ObsessingBuying records is easy. You can find them by the milk crate at yard sales, for a few dollars apiece in used record stores, and there are new, special pressings by contemporary musicians like Shelby Lynne, whose “Just a Little Lovin’” album, at $30, is a top seller. But buying the instrument needed to listen to them, a turntable, is a different matter. “Young people didn’t grow up with turntables,” said Kenny Bowers, manager at Needle Doctor, a Minnesota store specializing in turntables. “It seems mysterious and complicated because you don’t just push a button and have it play for you.” Record sales have climbed for five years. Now turntable sales are growing. They were up 50 percent in January over January last year. Hi-fi elitists may debate competing technologies of moving coil versus moving magnet cartridges as if Middle East peace depended on the answer, but turntables are really simple machines. It doesn’t cost a great deal to get a good one, and today’s turntables give you more for your money than they did when vinyl ruled. The celebrated Thorens 125 MKII, with tonearm, cost about $500 in 1975. (That’s about $2,000 in today’s dollars.) A comparable one in performance today, like the Music Hall MMF-2.2 or the Pro-Ject Debut III Esprit, costs $300 to $500. Nevertheless, some turntables, like the Clearaudio Master Reference at $28,000, cost as much as a Toyota Camry hybrid. You are paying for two things, precision and craftsmanship. So here’s a guide to some of the costs. (It was just as confusing back in the 1960s, kids.) A turntable is basically three assemblies: the revolving platform the record sits on, called the platter, and the motor and drive; the tonearm, which moves across the record as it plays; and the cartridge and needle, which sit on the end of the tonearm and pick up the vibrations recorded in a record’s grooves. Turntables are machines that read vibrations, but they often can’t distinguish a good vibration from a Beach Boys album and a bad one from your stomping across the room. A good turntable is designed to isolate it from the real world. The motor needs to provide noiseless, consistent speed. A heavy platter helps to keep the speed from varying. But it’s an engineering game of Whac-A-Mole. Heavier platters need bigger motors, which may be noisier (and they cost more). Light platters can more easily transmit vibrations that can cause a ringing sound. The rule of thumb is make sure the table weighs at least 10 pounds. “If not, it’s made of plastic compound. It will sing along with music,” said Harry Weisfeld, the owner of the turntable maker VPI, based in Cliffwood, N.J. He advocates metal platters. You can also buy mats and special feet to isolate the turntable from outside vibrations. The kind of motor is even more hotly debated. One way the motor drives the platter is with a belt; the other is to mount the platter directly on the motor. Direct-drive mounting is preferred by some people because there is less chance the speed will vary. Rubber belts can stretch and loosen over time. But a direct-drive turntable is more likely to transmit noise, whereas rubber belts absorb motor vibrations. The crazy thing is that the least and most expensive turntables tend to be belt-driven. It’s really a personal preference. Trust your ears. The tonearm needs to keep the needle where it picks the most vibrations from the record without so much pressure that it damages the grooves. “The main thing is the weight,” said Scott Shaw, audio solutions specialist for Audio-Technica, an audio equipment maker. “Lighter tracking forces tend to provide better audio quality,” he said. The cartridge is mounted on the end of the tonearm and holds the stylus, or needle. “The stylus is where everything happens,” said Michael Pettersen, director of applications engineering for Shure, which makes cartridges. “When you buy a $100 cartridge,” he said, “the needle is $90 of the cost.” Needles are either elliptical or spherical, with no significant price difference. Elliptical tends to be better at reproducing high-pitched sounds, said Mr. Pettersen. Spherical does a better job riding over flaws in vinyl, though, and may be better for 45s and worn records. (An even older form of record, the 78, require a special, larger stylus.) “If I have a very nasty record, I’ll use the spherical,” Mr. Shaw said. There are also two kinds of cartridges, moving magnet and moving coil. Most cartridges are moving magnet. While they tend to be heavier than moving coil, you can change the stylus yourself, which you may want to do to adjust to the condition of your vinyl or change the sound you get. Moving coil is the type often favored by audiophiles because it has less weight, but changing a stylus requires a trip to the manufacturer. Both types typically wear out in 600 to 800 hours of use. Although the sky is the limit on price, a very good cartridge costs $75 to $100, said Mr. Pettersen. Getting the most from a turntable requires careful setup, although maybe not as careful as people who sell calibration equipment would have you believe. “Setting up the turntable doesn’t have to be as complicated as they make it,” said Mr. Shaw. There can be leeway from the exact specifications, he said, adding, “Set it up fairly close, it will be fine. My point is, don’t obsess.” One additional piece of gear Mr. Shaw recommends is a stylus gauge to measure the weight the cartridge is putting on the record. “Don’t rely on the little numbers on the back of the tonearm,” he said. “They are very inaccurate.” Mr. Bowers of Needle Doctor recommends the Shure scale, the SFG-2, available online for $20 to $40. It may also be worthwhile to buy a tool to make sure the cartridge is lined up properly. Mr. Bowers recommended the Mobile Fidelity Geo-Disc, which is $50 to $80. Finally, you can check some of your work with a test record, like the Cardas Frequency Sweep and Burn-In Record ($15 to $30), which plays tones that help confirm that the setup is correct. You may find that what sounds best is not the recommended settings, or what the gauges and protractors dictate. In the end, it’s as much art as science. And isn’t that the beauty of analog? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Nice article Marty, although not really accurate when setting up a cartridge being off by fractions can make a world of difference in what the listener hears which is (IMHO) where vinyl is the leader in source material. Also comparing a music hall to a Thorens24 is bound to invite some comment I know of ZERO serious people that own a TT and don't obsess over setup, If you are buying a TT for SQ and you just place it on a stand with little attention to detail, you would be just as well off using digital 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Nice article Marty, although not really accurate when setting up a cartridge being off by fractions can make a world of difference in what the listener hears which is (IMHO) where vinyl is the leader in source material. Also comparing a music hall to a Thorens24 is bound to invite some comment I know of ZERO serious people that own a TT and don't obsess over setup, If you are buying a TT for SQ and you just place it on a stand with little attention to detail, you would be just as well off using digital I think this is more for people that are just getting in to Vinyl. I know when I brought my Thorens TD-124 home from my Grandpa's basement I looked up all the calibration and my head almost exploded trying to manage the azimuth angles, alignment etc. It almost made me want to just give up on it. Finally I just set the weight, made sure it was level and eyeballed the tonearm height and was able to start listening to and enjoying vinyl. From that starting point you can then obsess over all the small details to squeeze out every bit of SQ you can. Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... which is why i don't have hipster friends.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 That sounds complicated as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... which is why i don't have hipster friends.. Wow, so you actually dont like sitting around at Starbucks with your ipad while complaining about corporations, meat and how gender differences is actually violence or how you knew all the Indie bands before they were cool and sold out before going on to debate how much hops and fresh chlorophyll you can shove into a microbrew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... which is why i don't have hipster friends.. Wow, so you actually dont like sitting around at Starbucks with your ipad while complaining about corporations, meat and how gender differences is actually violence or how you knew all the Indie bands before they were cool and sold out before going on to debate how much hops and fresh chlorophyll you can shove into a microbrew? Nope. As in the case last night, I sit around my 42" fire pit, burning cedar cut down from my property, smoking my pipe, drinking WinCo coffee with fresh cookies made by my wife, and enjoying direct conversation with a few buddies - mostly circling around classic video games of our childhood, the celebration of one guy finding out his unborn child is a girl, and just general decompression from time focused on family, work, and life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 when setting up a cartridge being off by fractions can make a world of difference in what the listener hears which is (IMHO) where vinyl is the leader in source material. Also comparing a music hall to a Thorens24 is bound to invite some comment Finding this to be true. I am settling in to my new plinth for my 301. I was listening last weekend and something just seemed abit off on a record I know really well. I double checked everything and my Tonearm placement is a little off. This week I'm going to move it forward half a MM to get it spot on. Once dialed in perfectly I'm going to make a little walnut mounting plate for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 The best part is when you keep tweaking your table and you get that "wow" factor the best it ever sounded , and then you think I bet I can get it just a little better and you screw it up and never ever get that spot back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 I also have to concur with twk 123's remarks. I do believe this article is aimed at beginners and is trying to get them to not be daunted by the seeming complexity of setting up a table. Once you understand the process, and remember to leave the needle guard on, dialing in a table isn't that hard. And yes, I do agree that being fiddly with all of the parameters of the setup do redeem themselves in improved sonic benefits. Don't forget many of us who were using tables back in the heyday of vinyl were prone to making mistakes of our own. I can't tell you how many people, who were nutso about dialing in their systems etc. somehow believed that a needle was made to last a lifetime. One of the primary reason, IMO, garage sale vinyl that looks pristine and sounds noisy, if that single fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 last night, I sit around my 42" fire pit, burning cedar cut down from my property, smoking my pipe, drinking WinCo coffee with fresh cookies made by my wife, and enjoying direct conversation with a few buddies - mostly circling around classic video games of our childhood, the celebration of one guy finding out his unborn child is a girl, and just general decompression from time focused on family, work, and life. Sounds great to me. We had a bonfire Halloween night at the end of our driveway. Neighbors stopped by and it ended up being a very relaxing time. Many want it again next year. Thanks for the article Thebes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... which is why i don't have hipster friends.. Wow, so you actually dont like sitting around at Starbucks with your ipad while complaining about corporations, meat and how gender differences is actually violence or how you knew all the Indie bands before they were cool and sold out before going on to debate how much hops and fresh chlorophyll you can shove into a microbrew? Nope. As in the case last night, I sit around my 42" fire pit, burning cedar cut down from my property, smoking my pipe, drinking WinCo coffee with fresh cookies made by my wife, and enjoying direct conversation with a few buddies - mostly circling around classic video games of our childhood, the celebration of one guy finding out his unborn child is a girl, and just general decompression from time focused on family, work, and life. Damn that sounds pretty awesome. Ocarina of Time definitely tops my list with Mario Kart 64 and the original HALO coming in as a close second and third. There is nothing like cussing out your buddies in your basement playing Rockets on Boarding Action, good times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Enjoyed the Shiite Moslem out of mine since 1990; the last time I saw it... Edited December 5, 2014 by Sancho Panza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Besides, even the best DAC on the market wont impress your Hipster friends... I could not disagree more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondy Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Ocarina of Time definitely tops my list That was a great one. Although I must be older because my vintage games would be the original Zelda and Mario Bros. My really vintage games I grew up with would be from our Atari 2600, wood grain and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 So I guess you guys are too young to remember when pong hit the scene? It was a game. A game on a video screen. Still, nothing beats a good series of air hockey or even the bubble hockey with a boo button. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 So I guess you guys are too young to remember when pong hit the scene? It was a game. A game on a video screen. funny that you mention this morning. just came across this video on facebook... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 So I guess you guys are too young to remember when pong hit the scene? It was a game. A game on a video screen. Still, nothing beats a good series of air hockey or even the bubble hockey with a boo button. pong was awesome played it hours lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So I guess you guys are too young to remember when pong hit the scene? It was a game. A game on a video screen. Still, nothing beats a good series of air hockey or even the bubble hockey with a boo button. Back in the 1970s our high school had an arcade size pong game, arcade size air hockey, snack machines and a smoking lounge. I guess the thought at the time may have been that it was easier to keep the kids actually in the school building during the day rather than send the patrols out to chase them down behind the dugouts at the ball field. Of course, a few could still be found behind the dugouts as not all items that were being smoked at the time would be acceptable in the smoking lounge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So I guess you guys are too young to remember when pong hit the scene? It was a game. A game on a video screen. funny that you mention this morning. just came across this video on facebook... Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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