Do you really listen in stereo

[derrickdj1]

2 channel audio people talk about imaging, sound stage, and depth.  The problem is that most of us are not ideally placed for good stereo sound.  Off to the right or left throws the sound off.  To much distant and the room comes into play.  Do you have one chair or do you like to be able to move around while listening?

 

Only 2 speakers?  Multichannel systems offer the ability to fill in the nooks in the room if you sit back from the ideal  seating position.  Maybe something like DD PL IIz or IIx.  Without a sub to get all the bass, is it really Hi Fi?  Which type of monitors?  bookshelf are ideal but, how many of us are using bookshelf speakers?  I will be the first to say I sit off axis and move around a lot.  What are you thoughts on Do you really listen in stereo?  Maybe a better question is what is ideal for you.

Edited January 17, 2015 by derrickdj1

[twistedcrankcammer]

I listen in 2 channel occasionally, but more often than not, I listen in surround sound. If I really want to crank up the decibels I will listen to multi channel stereo or switch it to Mono.

 

I believe I listen in Surround sound as you have implied, because my listening room is less than optimal...

 

I have listened to Klipschorns and Jubilees in more optimal settings and the experience is very favorable.

 

I eventually want to build a dedicated surround sound room at 1.5 times the golden mean cube or square configuration. Until I have done that I believe my opinion on this is theory only!

 

Roger 

[willland]

If I want to just enjoy the music, listen for the details, imaging, etc., I move to one of my 2-channel rigs and I plant myself right in the third corner of an equilateral triangle and slightly tilt my head back and close my eyes.  I usually put on a well recorded piece from the likes of Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, Dire Straits, Steely Dan, and sink right into the music.

 

On the other hand, those same recordings sound really good in my RF-63 multichannel rig and the dead center recliner is my home.  It is also the third corner of an equilateral triangle.

 

Bill

[russ69]

Most definitely. In my main systems, with panel speakers, the sweet spot is very small. For me the 3D imaging is everything. It's the whole reason I spend time and money to get things just right. My rooms are dedicated to good stereo sound and that means the furniture has to be in the right position. Oh how I suffer for my art, lol.

Edited January 15, 2015 by russ69

[Chris A]

Do you have one chair or do you like to be able to move around while listening?...Only 2 speakers?...Without a sub to get all the bass, is it really Hi Fi? Which type of monitors?...What are you thoughts on do you really listen in stereo? Maybe a better question is what is ideal for you.

 

The greatest percentage of my music library is stereo--mostly CDs, but also vinyl once in a blue moon.  When I listen critically to stereo, I will typically stand up behind my listening chairs but centered in the sweet spot left-right, slightly to one side (more on this below).  When listening critically, I never use listening modes in surround format because those modes always negatively affect the stereo imaging in a big way.  I always use "stereo" mode which pulls in my TH subs below the 40 Hz crossover point because I find that low frequency information is always there in every recording even if it's only the recording venue subharmonics that I hear.  If I am going to listen to a lot of stereo recordings in one session by myself, I'll simply shift my room's two listening chairs to one side so that I'm sitting in the sweet spot, and throw a comforter over the unused chair to attenuate the nearby sound reflections from that chair and table.  If I'm sitting in a bar chair or standing behind my prime listening chairs but listening alone for extended periods, I'll usually tack up extra Sonofiber squares on a nearby side wall on the right to attenuate those nearby reflections, too.  It's a very audible improvement but has low WAF, so it comes down off the wall once I'm done.

 

Stereo actually has an issue built into it at about 1800 Hz (see Floyd Toole's book Sound Reproduction, pg. 151-155 for the "One-Toothed Comb" discussion).  If you sit directly on-axis with the K-402 horns pointed directly at your listening position, you will hear a dramatic deepening and widening of the sound stage when you enter the sweet spot, but it will also change timbre to sound duller.  This is a psychoacoustic effect--interaural time difference between the ears and the well-known issue of stereo cross-talk between the ears, resulting in an ~1800 Hz notch in the frequency response which is responsible for the sound becoming duller.  I find that by moving slightly to one side or the other will diminish this dulling of sound, but will also lose some of the deepening of the sound stage.  It's a compromise. 

 

Chris

Edited January 15, 2015 by Chris A

[Shakeydeal]

Dedicated room, two channel ONLY, perfectly placed speakers and listening chair.

 

Ok, go ahead and make fun of me for being a geek. But that is the way I roll. Multi channel processing is fine for movies, but gimmicky for serious music listening.

 

YMMV.........

 

 

Shakey

[mdross1]

Always listen in stereo because we are so busy all the time. Our living room is wired for surround sound and for a while had all the speakers hooked up call us old fashioned but we got tired of it.

[willland]

Ok, go ahead and make fun of me for being a geek.

 

I guess I am a geek also.

 

Our living room is wired for surround sound and for a while had all the speakers hooked up call us old fashioned but we got tired of it.

 

And old fashioned too.

 

I just happen to like multichannel music also for some recordings.

 

Bill

[Anotherforumname]

My 2 channel room has one chair placed smack dab in the middle of the speakers, I have no problem sitting for hours at a time. In the 6.1 home theater room the center of the couch is in the middle, I have a 2 ch mode on my receiver and a separate amp for my mains. I firmly place my @$$ there and don't move, some music actually immobilizes me with the sound stage, detail, you get the picture. Even when I watch concert videos I usually listen in stereo, it just sounds better, more natural to me.

[Schu]

stereo... always stereo. centered, with a dedicated LP... unless I happen to be listening to some bluray audio or dvd-a.

 

Centered LP, that's where the magic happens... otherwise I might as just down grade and get some high output tchotchke that merely fills the room with "loud and cheap" sound.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Schu

[Ski Bum]

We don't have a dedicated room to do multichannel justice.  We do have rears in our boob tube system, matrixed old school style in the form of a Hafler array (don't use an actual Hafler box, just a separate amp w/ it's own gain controls, negative speaker leads connected together and only positive leads connected to amp).  Works very well, unobtrusive and natural sounding with music, and entirely sufficient for Dr. Who and basketball.

 

The Klipsch and other rigs we use are all two channel.  Speakers in the other rigs tend to be small studio monitor types paired w/ decent woofage.  The goals are the same in each case: less room, more source.  

 

With the horns, a larger and more stable image can result from cross-firing.  I've posted Bill's paper before, but it applies directly to this topic so HERE it is again.  This works better the lower the speakers hold a pattern, and the wider their spacing is in the room.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Ski Bum

[Thaddeus Smith]

my 2-channel rig encorporates a centered listening position about 7 ft from the speakers, using cornwalls placed at 45 degrees to the LP. If I'm missing musical bass I'll certainly never know it. Imaging is dead center, but my soundstage is sometimes compressed due to the nearfield setup (the whole band is playing from center vs. multiple spots along the wall).

[Shiva]

The center seat of my couch is in the sweet spot and I always sit there. Though it is a 5.2 surround system, I often listen to music in stereo.  I am doing so now as I type this post. I am currently testing out a new amp I just bought off of Amazon- Topping TP32EX. A T-amp which is 30 watts at 8 oms and 50 watts at 4.  So far it sounds pretty impressive. Listening to Pandora through my Squeezebox Touch into my Epic CF3's.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I've never gotten in to serious listening with a stereo rig. To me, music has always been coupled with another activity. Cooking, parties, playing guitar, studying, having friends over, working, driving, etc. I will sometimes do nothing but listen but it is mainly because the song triggers memories. I could care less about imaging and whatnot on a two channel rig to be honest. Home theater is a different story, I love concert blu rays.

[Ski Bum]

I've never gotten in to serious listening with a stereo rig. To me, music has always been coupled with another activity. Cooking, parties, playing guitar, studying, having friends over, working, driving, etc. I will sometimes do nothing but listen but it is mainly because the song triggers memories. I could care less about imaging and whatnot on a two channel rig to be honest. Home theater is a different story, I love concert blu rays.

That's no excuse not to have a comfy chair strategically located in the sweet spot.  What about those times when you buy a new album/cd/download and want to really swim through the mix and familiarize yourself?  Shoot, I do that with music I'm intimately familiar with and learn/hear something new quite often.

 

We have music on pretty much all waking hours, and it's seldom the primary focus of what we're doing.  But I do like to trip out hard to music, too, where it is the sole focus.  I like the effect of feeling plugged directly into the mixing console on the studio recordings, and being transported to the event for live recordings.  That's sweet-spot-immersion sort of stuff, not casual background enjoyment.

[Thaddeus Smith]

Mark - what are you using for speakers?

[derrickdj1]

I do have one sitting spot that use for critical listening and it sounds great.  I do notice if I move a foot to the left or right the imaging shifts.  I guess it convert to a larger sweet spot with less imaging.  It is still nice and has a good sound stage.  I only use to speakers the majority of times for music.  I do like DD PL IIz which makes the presentation a little more laid back.  The problem with PL IIz is that to much of the presentation is centered.  There is nothing like a good SACD or multichannel concert that can't be reproduce on two channels.

[Thaddeus Smith]

Old school. I thought the only alternative to stereo was mono?

 

In recent years, I've given up the idea of a "sound room". I chased that around for years and it was fun, but we have a small house now, and I make do by sharing the room with the usual activities of a living room. For this reason, I have gone to mostly near field listening ("monitoring") and learned to enjoy that just fine. I listen at 75dB average, so I have no need for large, high SPL speakers. I've never cared for the sound of subs, so I rarely use them. I can hear all the instruments I care about just fine. NF listening still affords a nice 3D image, and the premium is put on clarity, detail, coherence. I like to sit and listen intently, more than just having noise in the air while we are around the house. In fact, I discourage that activity because it becomes like noise pollution after a while, and creates more disinterest for me than interest. I think of my home listening like going to a concert. I wouldn't buy a ticket, and then spend my time walking around the theater cleaning the chairs, chatting with people, mopping the floors, and so on. I would sit in my seat and listen! As for anything involving the TV, I've not found any need to use anything beyond the speakers included in the TV. The only think that interests me is the story.

 

Good thread. When we read people's opinions about things, we should map that over their listening arrangement as a way to understand their POV!

 

it's comforting to hear a guy that's been behind some wonderful companies and kicked out amazing high end equipment for Audiophiles talk about how he has no dedicated music room and makes do with the space he has available to him. while not incongruent with Mark's character, it's definitely not what I would expect from someone so involved with the industry.

[kaiser SET say]

Stereo, three leather chairs. A rocker that sits just behind and between the recliners if I'm alone and then when company comes I rotate so they can have the center seat for their favorites.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I like the effect of feeling plugged directly into the mixing console on the studio recordings, and being transported to the event for live recordings.  That's sweet-spot-immersion sort of stuff, not casual background enjoyment.

That's me with concert blu rays. Immersion to me is surround sound, subs blaring, and a larger than life image of the artist playing on the screen. I watched an STP concert for about the 10th time just last night.

 

What about those times when you buy a new album/cd/download and want to really swim through the mix and familiarize yourself?

I never do that. I usually hate new material until I've heard it a good 20 times. Only at that point would I ever stop everything I'm doing and do a deep dive in a listening environment. I'm sure that makes me a non-audiophile but I can't get into it.

Edited January 15, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters