moray james Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Well then the KLF's have a 1.5" diaphragm to do bass duty from 825 on up. Not only that but that tiny diaphragm has to keep up with 2 12" woofers while doing it. This may just be an observation but perhaps maybe back in the day they built speakers that are more impressive looking to the consumer instead of what actually sounds best? I wasn't trying to say the KLF's were bad sounding just that the RF's were a completely different sound that seemed more full/rich and clearer. hopefully I can find somebody to take these KLF's off my hands. That is if I like the new ones better. you are comparing apples to oranges and you are wrong. The mid driver is a compression driver and has an average of ten db over a dynamic and does that with much lower distortion. Back in the day like pPWK's day you bet the did it right and today Vox is doing it wrong because they want the fame and they want to sell tiny speakers to people who want to buy tiny speakers. If only you were right lots of world class professional sound companies who move tens of thousands of pounds of gear all over the world and gee all they really need are some home hi fi long through eight inch woofers to get the job done. That would save a lot of money for sure. So you never said is you swap out the poly tweeter diaphragms in your KLF30 for new titanium versions? Your KLF30 with a set of Bob's Connscala D type horn (two inch exit) with Faital Pro drivers and networks would make a killer two way. I fear that you are throwing the baby out with the bath water and smaller is not the way to go unless you have a space crunch at home. I do hope that you like your new speakers. Best regards Moray James. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) well my listening room/theater is 11x 20 so I would think the KLF's are a bit of overkill. Yes drivers are more efficient but I'd think 2 - 8" drivers going up to 1400 would give a fuller sound over an 1.5 " anything. Especially if your driving it down to 825. Thanks for the wishes, I hope I like them too. Interesting tidbit, the KLF 20's crossed at 750. You would think the smaller 10"ers would cross over higher than the 12"ers. A couple of observations I have made would be that the halfway point from my speakers to my couch has much more bass than I do at the couch. And my buddys setup is in about the same sized room but his is setup on the long wall. That may be why his bass was so much more pronounced? Edited April 6, 2015 by cradeldorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 well I explained why they cross lower and not higher, in the case of the klf30 and the dual twelve they were intentionally attempting to take advantage of pushing more air with the woofers. With the comp drivers and horns you are concerned about much more than pushing air you also have to be concerned with dispersion and directivity control. Sounds loike you have it figured out so why not sell those big old KLF30 with the stock poly diaphragms for cheap to someone who might appreciate playing with them. Best regards Moray James. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'll post them up in the Garage sale area If they are heading out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'll post them up in the Garage sale area If they are heading out. Or, you could just keep them all and even buy a few more pair for hoarding like many of us on the forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 You have to please your own ears. Looking forward to the comparison 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 you are comparing apples to oranges and you are wrong. this comes off disrespectful and about half rude. if the guy thinks they sounded fuller then who are you to say he is just straight up wrong? i could tell you all day after bashing palladiums for so long because of what someone told me that your klf's would walk circles around them. but after buying them and hearing them i don't feel that way at all anymore. and after loading them up and taking them to a friends house and hearing them in a larger dedicated room on a powerhouse amp they are easily one of klipsch best speakers. regardless of price. and they all have 7" woofers. they are outstanding! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The thing that matters is that you are happy. If there was a one size fits all speaker type the world would be a boring place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) I'm sure Moray meant no disrespect. He's just passionate about his beloved sport. And comparing palladiums to RF is more of an apples to oranges comparison. because your talkin a 400 dollar speaker against a 4,000 (P-37) dollar speaker. I'll be sure and post up my thoughts about their performance. Edited April 7, 2015 by cradeldorf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) hmmm... Interesting... I thought the comparison was between RF-82 II and RF-3 II speakers... So, here's what on the paper !! RF-82 II Enhanced 1" titanium Linear Travel Suspension horn-loaded tweeter (from Description tab) Frequency Response: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB SENSITIVITY: 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m POWER HANDLING: 150W RMS / 600W Peak NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 Ohms compatible Low Frequency Driver: Dual 8" (20.3cm) Cerametallic cone woofers HIGH FREQUENCY CROSSOVER: 1400Hz ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass-reflex via dual rear-firing ports INPUTS: Dual binding posts / bi-wire / bi-amp HEIGHT: 43.9" (111.4cm) with feet WIDTH: 9.3" (23.5cm) DEPTH: 16.3" (41.4cm) with grille WEIGHT: 61.5lbs (27.9 kg) FINISHES: Black Ash woodgrain vinyl Built From: 2010 RF-3 II Frequency Response: 37Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB SENSITIVITY: 98dB @ 1watt/1meter POWER HANDLING: 150 watts maximum continuous (600 watts peak) NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms TWEETER: K-124-K 1" (2.54cm) Titanium dome compression driver HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 6" square 90(o)x60(o) Tractrix® Horn WOOFER: Two K-1083-SB 8" (20.32cm) Cerametallic® cone / cast polymer frame ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF) ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via rear-mounted port DIMENSIONS: 38.5" (97.8cm) x 9" (22.9cm) x 16.2" (41cm) WEIGHT: 56 lbs. (25.5kg) FINISHES: Black ash vinyl veneer Built From: 2001 BUILT UNTIL: 2003 Seems pretty comparable specifications, except the bass is bit deeper and high are bit higher in the case of RF-82 II. Unless you have good ears, not sure if you're going to hear 24khz while in the case of bass you'll certainly experience. Make sure, you move them around until you find a best spot for all-around sound. Objectively i.e. Technically, it all boils down to the transducers, crossovers and cabinetry dimensions/construction in terms of performance. Subjectively i.e. Pleasing to one's ear is very individual, which we must respect. Forget about all this technical crap !! When you get them, compare to the remembered experience of RF-3 II and tell us how RF-82 II sounds II. Edited April 7, 2015 by pite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I spent many years in car audio and it was common knowledge that smaller bass drivers were faster and more accurate than larger ones. For example the double kick drum bass on some Metallica songs, the larger 12" & 15" woofers would trip all over themselves trying to reproduce it while multiple smaller drivers 8" & 10" could more accurately reproduce the complex notes. I typically used 10" subwoofers for that very reason. My favorite sub box was a custom designed dual isobaric enclosure with Vifa P25-W00 10" woofers tuned to like 28Hz. It was the cleanest lowest bass I had heard. Used it in the back of a Subaru Legacy wagon and the bass wave could travel for miles. Bigger is not always better! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ...please excuse me for butting in but... I need some help Used it in the back of a Subaru Legacy wagon and the bass wave could travel for miles I am running 2, 12" Rockfords in separate sealed enclosures behind the front seats, on the floor. Powered with a Digital Designs 600W mono block at 2 ohms. I am interested in knowing more of this "isobaric" enclosure you speak of... my problem is, I have to have room to haul these babies around with me. They always enter through the hatch but going in through the back door is an option. I want some subs that can breath as opposed to the sealed enclosures. Space is at a premium!!! Thoughts and suggestions please, Frzninvt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ...please excuse me for butting in but... I need some help Used it in the back of a Subaru Legacy wagon and the bass wave could travel for miles I am running 2, 12" Rockfords in separate sealed enclosures behind the front seats, on the floor. Powered with a Digital Designs 600W mono block at 2 ohms. I am interested in knowing more of this "isobaric" enclosure you speak of... my problem is, I have to have room to haul these babies around with me. They always enter through the hatch but going in through the back door is an option. I want some subs that can breath as opposed to the sealed enclosures. Space is at a premium!!! Thoughts and suggestions please, Frzninvt Looks like it's time to start a new thread...... Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vnzbd Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The placement in the room certainly make a difference in the bass output. I have had the same issue with the bass being more pronounced between the couch and TV area and moving the speakers just inches brought the big bass to the couch. Long wall and short wall also can play into it. I prefer the sound of the two-way vs. three-way in the Klipsch lineup. All of the KLF series 3-ways give me listeners fatigue within minutes at a moderate volume. I have had the 20's and 30's with the Ti tweets and it made little difference to the fatigue so I feel that it is a mid issue. I have several sets of the 10's and have no issue with them. I do believe that they are voiced more bass heavy/leaner in the mids than their big brothers and that is music to my ears! I am taking a guess here that the 82's are probably similar although their crossover point is much lower than the 10's 2.3Khz. Enjoy you new speakers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Got a call, They'll be here tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Okay, they're up and running, First impression "what was I thinking" after fiddeling with the amp and letting them play for awhile they seemed to be almost equal to the KLF 30's. But clarity seemed a bit off. So I replaced those junk metal jumpers on one of them with some 12ga stranded copper speaker wire. At that point that speaker stood out as cleaner clearer highs. I did the other one and now they seem to be just a hair better sounding than the 30's Dialog in movies seems a little smoother. Perfect pitch on all fronts right off the bat was a nice thing considering all the things I had to do to the 30's to get them to sound this good. I see why they say you don't need subs with these as they went deeper than the 30's and with better authority. All in all at this point I'm satisfied with the choice I made. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 They can only sound better as they settle in to their own. Thinking you are liking the choice...congrats! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 If I can clear $600 for the 30's I think the upgrade was worth the $100 per speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Once the woofers break in it will be even better. They look kinda tiny next to the KLF's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Congrats on the new speakers! Everybody has their own tastes, I wouldn't worry much about impressing anyone but yourself. I'd recommend holding on to the 30's though for at least a couple weeks while the new speakers settle in and then do one last comparison before letting them go. You might be glad you did, or not, but better to have them on hand just in case. Enjoy the new setup! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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