thebes Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 "... custom designs all new circuitry that transforms your vintage amp into a modern, extreme high-end amplifier. We perform complete “gut and rebuild” modifications that greatly improve the sound quality of virtually any vintage amp, including Fisher, Marantz, McIntosh, Dynaco, Eico, H.H. Scott, Sherwood and Heathkit. We begin by removing all of the amp’s original components, including all resistors and capacitors. Then we create new, custom circuitry that optimizes the sound quality of its original power supply and output transformers. Each stage of your amplifier, from the phono preamp section to the power output stage, is redesigned and rebuilt. The phono and line amplifiers are converted to low feedback pure class A triode designs. The output and driver stages are changed from simple push-pull to fully differential amplifiers using either power pentode or full triode design. These modifications provide a level of inner detail and spatial-dynamics normally associated only with amps costing 10 times the price. They represent a truly outstanding value for the money. It is very difficult to surpass the sound quality of our modified amps for less than $25,000." Sure sprucing up and jazzing up a classic amp during a rebuild is acceptable behavior, but what is the point of a gut job like they are describing. Apparently all the guys whose genius designed these things were all wrong, or eclipsed or something, and instead of offering a new circuit in a new amp, for $2700 we'll turn your classic into some sort of audio Potemkin Village. Ok let's try a car analogy. Would you put a Porsche engine into a Maserati? Seems incredibly silly to me. Oh, and does somebody really make a $25,000 amp? I suppose. this is audio after all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Lots of Americans put chevy engines into jaguars, but that really doesn't say much for either marque does it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswhotakesphotos Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Depends on the Porsche! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Depends on the Maserati! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) They make sleepers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJc93-U9jqo Edited May 7, 2015 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Not all classic designs are equal in sound quality performance and can be improved with better circuit designs. Many modifying companies working on Dynaco, Hafler, Adcom and others have use the practice of using the basic design's chassis and transformer (transformers in the case of tube amplifiers) and other various components while introducing their own improved circuits. It can save considerable money since a large cost of a design is in the chassis, case work, transformers, heat sinks for SS designs..etc...... "Apparently all the guys whose genius designed these things were all wrong, or eclipsed or something" There are many reasons why amplifiers (Tubes and SS) can be improved and it doesn't mean the original designers were wrong for their time or circumstances that might have influenced the original design. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 They make sleepers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJc93-U9jqo If I ever get my 70 beetle to you for a full body rehab, promise me you won't do any of that to her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Oh, and does somebody really make a $25,000 amp? I suppose. this is audio after all. Ha! You should have gone to the Axpona Audio show a couple of weeks ago with me in Chicago! Chock full of $25,000 amps, speakers, cables....(well, almost....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Get on of these and it will make $25, 000 sound very reasonable. I seen one at a custom shop for $100 K. They have some pricy mono blocks and 2 ch also for not much less. Edited May 7, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 It looks like a toaster but I can't tell where the bread would fit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) They make sleepers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJc93-U9jqo If I ever get my 70 beetle to you for a full body rehab, promise me you won't do any of that to her! I think I can fit a 3.6 liter boxer engine in a 70 beetle. Throw on a turbo and you can be smoking the GTR's. Edited May 7, 2015 by mustang guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 "... custom designs all new circuitry that transforms your vintage amp into a modern, extreme high-end amplifier. We perform complete “gut and rebuild” modifications that greatly improve the sound quality of virtually any vintage amp, including Fisher, Marantz, McIntosh, Dynaco, Eico, H.H. Scott, Sherwood and Heathkit. We begin by removing all of the amp’s original components, including all resistors and capacitors. Then we create new, custom circuitry that optimizes the sound quality of its original power supply and output transformers. Each stage of your amplifier, from the phono preamp section to the power output stage, is redesigned and rebuilt. The phono and line amplifiers are converted to low feedback pure class A triode designs. The output and driver stages are changed from simple push-pull to fully differential amplifiers using either power pentode or full triode design. These modifications provide a level of inner detail and spatial-dynamics normally associated only with amps costing 10 times the price. They represent a truly outstanding value for the money. It is very difficult to surpass the sound quality of our modified amps for less than $25,000." Sure sprucing up and jazzing up a classic amp during a rebuild is acceptable behavior, but what is the point of a gut job like they are describing. Apparently all the guys whose genius designed these things were all wrong, or eclipsed or something, and instead of offering a new circuit in a new amp, for $2700 we'll turn your classic into some sort of audio Potemkin Village. Ok let's try a car analogy. Would you put a Porsche engine into a Maserati? Oh, and does somebody really make a $25,000 amp? I suppose. this is audio after all. It's not silly if the people doing the work have incredible audio design credentials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Exactly. To be honest, you can get so much now for so little in the way of good amplification that I just don't see the point in pursuing this kind of stuff. I really like integrated units, and my eyes have been glazing over while checking out the specifications and the innards of some of the new NAD stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I saw amps that cost $184,000 at Axpona in 2012!!! They were in the Tidal room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I'd like to have a pair of Pass Xs 300's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I'd like to have a pair of Pass Xs 300's I think we all would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The best thing I ever did to a Dynaco ST-120 was to rip out all the insides and install a little $15 class D amp. The case is cool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I would have to think there would be a lot of variables involved in making such a decision. Bottom line is the service may not be optimal for every person or piece of gear out there but I'm sure its a good fit for many, otherwise shops that offer this type of service wouldn't be around for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 For me it would defeat the purpose of buying a classic amp to begin with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Not all classic designs are equal in sound quality performance and can be improved with better circuit designs. Many modifying companies working on Dynaco, Hafler, Adcom and others have use the practice of using the basic design's chassis and transformer (transformers in the case of tube amplifiers) and other various components while introducing their own improved circuits. It can save considerable money since a large cost of a design is in the chassis, case work, transformers, heat sinks for SS designs..etc...... "Apparently all the guys whose genius designed these things were all wrong, or eclipsed or something" There are many reasons why amplifiers (Tubes and SS) can be improved and it doesn't mean the original designers were wrong for their time or circumstances that might have influenced the original design. miketn I understand there are people that play around with these amps. Will extremely patient guidance I myself converted a Bogem MO 100 to El34's and beefed up the circuit. You assisted me in re-cappng a Hafler preamp, and I'm aware of the various Dynaco circuit board changes, some that better and some that worsen the performance of that amp. I'm also aware that not all classic tube designs are the best they could be, many are very cheaply built. That is why I stripped the transformers from an old console and with Maynard help built an very nice SEP last winter. At least I had the decency to sue a new case for those old transformers. However, what these guys are proposing sounds like wholesale slaughter. Their claim is anything they do to any and all of these classsic amps is going to be way better than anything that is inside them. That's nonsense to me. I mean would you gut a pair of Marantz Model 9's, for example, and then have the balls to claim you put a better circuit in them? They also seem to sneer at Class A/B. "Yes, we'll get rid of that right away because Class A is better" to paraphrase. Really? No debate within the audio firmament at all on that? The phono and line amplifiers are converted to low feedback pure class A triode designs. The output and driver stages are changed from simple push-pull to fully differential amplifiers using either power pentode or full triode design. Now I'm not sure what all of that stuff above means, but it's clearly not a Dynaco Mark 4, or a Marantz 8b, or Scott X202b or... I don't object to sprucing up an old design, but what is the point of simply gutting stuff. For $2700 you can build a might fine amplifier, hey even monoblocks. Ones with transformers that could be would to spec. Tell me. When they are done do they leave the unused tubes heaters hooked up so you can get that nice warm glow from those old Mullards and Telefunkens, and pretend you are are living in the "Mad Men" era. Mad men, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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