joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 First I want to say I know the Moderators job is a thankless one and it likely feels as though you can do no right. someone is always going to complain. Link to The Moderators thread stating how decisions are made. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/157108-a-message-from-your-moderators-please-read/ I have to say I can not see every decision going to committee and being agreed upon 100% that does not seem like human nature, so I wonder how you deal with decent, is it a majority rules situation, or is it like a jury any decent and the decision is tabled (so to speak) In my 10 years on the forums this has been a place of open discussions and thought with some banter thrown around some good some not so much, the thread lock and delete was a tool used to remove verbal abuse, profanity, and name calling, personal attacks (Love Ya Amy) Today it seems the thread delete / lock is used to control a thread and censor it in a manner that it meets the Moderators idea of the direction a thread should travel 2 recent Examples Sorry Thad ( 1. cornwalls, "now the thread is back on track, lets keep it that way" 2. Cd's for sale in sleeves, "This thread serves no further purpose") But you made the posts although according to the linked thread above it is a committee decision In both the above there were no insults being hurled, no profanity,personal attacks, at best there was some sarcasm, So what gives? Is there a new rule that has been missed? are we now expected to follow the moderators view of how threads should progress? I understand trying to stop an incident from happening before it gets out of control, We are all supposed to be adults, We dont require babysitting (usually) I HATE the idea of starting this thread in a place that has given me so much, I HATE the idea of this place turning into a police state even more, the exchange of free ideas is what has kept this forum so highly regarded by so many for so long, If we go down the road of censorship (except in the obvious situations where profanity and personal attacks are taking place) I fear we will loose Many of the great members that contribute selflessly to the overall knowledge on this forum This is not an attack on any one, This is a concern I hope the many I consider friends can see that 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Post edited for length & content, may be unsuitable for some viewers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Joe, as I put up that post I have hidden it. Yes, due to this thread but only because you brought my attention to it and it is no longer entirely accurate. Through that process your moderators learned a LOT about fair moderation and now I'd say we make most decisions on our own. We have a moderator-only forum where any objections are discussed and we listen to each other. Personally, I feel the Forums have returned largely to self-moderation as we all prefer since the rather bumpy ride in the spring. We make every effort to reach out via PMs to ensure we fully understand motivations and content before taking action, and then take the least we can. We are not in lockstep, and we are all very different people...but we support each other as we must do so in order to protect the Forums and Klipsch. If you think about it, this is one of the oldest and largest audio Forums on the net. I am not sure there is a larger one that is supported by a commercial concern. It's success and the warm, wonderful community it has nurtured under minimal intervention by the powers that be at Klipsch says to me that, warts and all we've done pretty well. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) Moderation is not a thankless job... I moderate a couple other Large forums I belong to, much larger than the klipsch forum. My personal prefence is to moderate very very little and I let the collective take care most issues. What happens sometimes is that some folks who become moderators either feel the need to "do something" in order to feel functional in their newly appointed position of responsibility, or they have a sense of entitlement and use the position as a form of power to fulfill the otherwise empty lives. The most sucessful moderators remain lively and inclusive in their forums and interact with other forumites in a seamless and invisible manner and only reveal themselves during intense situations of extreme debate or conflict or in areas where spam is an issue... never on a daily basis or as a matter of social graces. I have seen moderators kill a forum... I dont think that is our situation on this forum, yet. Edited September 23, 2015 by Schu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Joe, as I put up that post I have hidden it. Yes, due to this thread but only because you brought my attention to it and it is no longer entirely accurate. Through that process your moderators learned a LOT about fair moderation and now I'd say we make most decisions on our own. We have a moderator-only forum where any objections are discussed and we listen to each other. Personally, I feel the Forums have returned largely to self-moderation as we all prefer since the rather bumpy ride in the spring. We make every effort to reach out via PMs to ensure we fully understand motivations and content before taking action, and then take the least we can. We are not in lockstep, and we are all very different people...but we support each other as we must do so in order to protect the Forums and Klipsch. If you think about it, this is one of the oldest and largest audio Forums on the net. I am not sure there is a larger one that is supported by a commercial concern. It's success and the warm, wonderful community it has nurtured under minimal intervention by the powers that be at Klipsch says to me that, warts and all we've done pretty well. Dave Dave appreciate the response, (A tad ironic hiding the linked post but at least I got a good belly laugh from the irony ) I agree this is a great place, I have no idea about the size thing, I do think self moderation is a good thing, But I also know it can go to far with some thinking there version of right outweighs others views It was my understanding of the parameters for deletion and locking were personal attacks, profanity and overall ignorance, There is no doubt those are NOT the parameters used by some today, since I have seen no new rules regarding posting that could EASILY be construed as censorship I love this forum, and feel like I have made a lot of friends, I dont want to see it travel down a bad path Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Moderation is not a thankless job... I moderate a couple other Large forums I belong to, much larger than the klipsch forum. My personal prefence is to moderate very very little and I let the collective take care most issues. What happens sometimes is that some folks who become moderators either feel the need to "do something" in order to feel functional in their newly appointed position of responsibility, or they have a sense of entitlement and use the position as a form of power to fulfill the otherwise empty lives. The most sucessful moderators remain lively and inclusive in their forums and interact with other forumites in a seamless and invisible manner and only reveal themselves during intense situations of extreme debate or conflict or in areas where spam is an issue... never on a daily basis or as a matter of social graces. I have seen moderators kill a forum... I dont think that is our situation on this forum, yet. "Yet" Is my sole motivation for this thread, Thanks for the input well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I try only to touch FS threads. People keep price policing, going off topic, etc. People complain when we don't moderate. People complain when we do. I get texts and emails from members about issues, and members report minor posts/threads all the time. Edited September 23, 2015 by Thaddeus Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 I try only to touch FS threads. People keep price policing, going off topic, etc. People complain when we don't moderate. People complain when we do. IE.......Thankless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 And just to be clear - Amy locked threads all the time, which is why forum members had the game called "In before the lock" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 In before the lock. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Here's a copy of the post you referred to, which, as I said, is no longer accurate: Your moderators no longer work as individuals except in cases of obvious spam, legal issues, or offensive language and images. Even then, we talk. When it comes to hard calls about religion, politics, touting, or heavy technical debate we may talk at LOT before taking any action. As some have noticed, topics have occasionally been unlocked...something that was previously very rare. That is due to this process. The point is this: If you received a warning point, or have a topic locked, don't blame the person performing the action. If you are more comfortable with another of us, feel free to PM. We all get along extremely well and if your issue has merit we have no problem bringing it up. Chad is, of course, Administrator, and we occasionally toss the very hard calls to him. He's a great guy whose job it is to ensure the Forums reflect the legacy and good name of PWK. Your moderators are here for a variety of reasons. Enlisted, impressed, field appointment, and elected. All serve for one reason: The Forum is family and should be self-moderated to start, moderated by fellow members when required, and only moderated by Klipsch when all else fails. Your Moderation Team PS - Feel free to discuss this in a new thread if you wish. Main reason for locking this one is just to keep the clutter down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I don't think we can take any "locks" personally, as i don't think they have an axe to grind against any of us. While i fully believe that most of the locks are done hastily; occasionally i'm perplexed at some that aren't. Like Dave indicated, they are all individuals and undoubtedly have either topics or key words that set them into "launch mode." For me, it would be mentioning violence against another person--I would have zero tolerance towards that and would lock a thread the minute i saw it. I'm saddened to read Michael's post about getting complaints from forum members. Barring threats or libelous statements, i have a hard time understanding filing a complaint. I've never officially complained--I have voiced my frustration to forum friends on one occasion. I've only had a few negative experiences on this forum during the past 10 years. A great many years ago, i did ask Amy to delete a thread that I started because a forum member responded to my post, and while giving the impression that he was quoting me, he had changed the wording of my quote that stated things about me that were 100% false. I've recommended this forum to family and friends, so I thought doing this was the epitome of "uncool." Trust me, i say enough stuff about myself -- I don't need people making up junk. Since I had started the thread, i simply asked Amy to delete it without mentioning the other party and she did, as I believe that this person thought they were just being funny. Despite my feelings of moderator overreaction--i commend them for being willing to be involved and i'm sure they're only doing what they think is right. Now, if they would only think less often... Edited September 23, 2015 by BigStewMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 In before the lock. Oh wait................................................. Joe, as far as the Cornwall for sale thread goes, I was in agreement with Thad and told him as much. Price crapping someone else's for sale thread serves no useful purpose. This thread would be a great place for a frank and open discussion as to why I was wrong to think that way. None of my thoughts are set in stone and I would have no problem hearing ideas that would ultimately make me better at moderating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 None of my thoughts are set in stone and I would have no problem hearing ideas that would ultimately make me better at moderating. We all welcome PMs questioning our decisions. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted September 23, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 23, 2015 I have seen moderators kill a forum... I dont think that is our situation on this forum, yet. I've seen that too... I won't let it happen here. And I think we are nowhere near that realm of possibility at this time. Trust me, y'all have it good here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorm Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Carl Just an example not an issue with me, the other example was not an issue with me either although I admit I did pm Thad I accept that he felt no need to reply to the Pm as it was more a comment than a ? Perhaps it is the wording in the post stating the lock / delete that presents the impression of censorship ?? Thad We all know Amy locked threads, but the reasons were entirely different in every instance I saw, The ? is not locking threads or deleting posts It is the decision making behind locking or deleting Posts / threads, Frankly I have to question the reasons for stating Amy locked posts as an excuse for current actions related to locking threads and deleting posts I don't take any of this personally and again this is not aimed at any individual, so please don't you take it personally you just happen to be the guy that posted the deletes and locks used as examples because to my knowledge they were the most recent Chad glad to see you chime in, Questions are a good thing IMHO they shine attention on things that deserve constant review, A Police state is what we get when no one cares enough to discuss / watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) BTW.. threads and posts are hidden, not deleted. What that means is that we have built-in oversight and accountability for our decisions. Other mods and Chad can go review the threads/posts and determine if the action was warranted (or not) and restore the posts if seen fit to do so. Very rarely are all of us online at the same time. Issues spiral out of control quickly on this forum, so we may make an initial quick decision and then ask the other mods to review as they become available and hash it out from there. Edited September 23, 2015 by Thaddeus Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 although I admit I did pm Thad I accept that he felt no need to reply to the Pm as it was more a comment than a ? I have a bad habit of reading PM content when I get the notification e-mail and forgetting to respond when I'm actually on the forum. Sorry about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 No issues my man, It is enlightening to hear some of this stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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