garyrc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Something is definitely wrong. My Khorns (with "Fanfare for the Common Man," with its great bass) make my pants legs flap in the breeze at 16 feet away, in a 25 X 17 foot room with a 10 foot ++ ceiling. What are the room dimensions, including ceiling height? Volume? If you are going to leave that Khorn-high pony wall there (and you should) make sure it is very rigid and high mass, and that the floor is strong enough to support it. Triple check phase. It's no crime to turn up the bass with a Khorn. A sub would need to be an awfully good and tight one to sound anywhere nearly as good as the Khorn. I'm not sure if you have room for a horn loaded sub ... others may be able to give you that info, but horn loaded would be the way to go. I second the REW suggestion (it's free, but you would need to borrow or buy a calibrated mic. There is a huge thread on doing this with a good USB mic over at AVS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 58 minutes ago, AHall said: I feel like I'm missing an inside joke with the bees wax. Don't worry, it's not that funny..... Seriously, in that room, the huge upholstered couches are stealing (absorbing) a lot of the Khorn low end goodness. I would move the couches as far back as possible. Try it, you might like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody_Mack Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Does the AVR have a 2-channel, or Pure/Direct setting? If so, make sure you are switched that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, Cody_Mack said: Does the AVR have a 2-channel, or Pure/Direct setting? If so, make sure you are switched that. Good question. Are you running the Khorns by themselves, and they still sound poor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHall Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 I've run them in pure/direct. They sound better that way actually. All the listening is in 2ch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHall Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Also the room is 18ft wide, 16ft deep(but now extended into the rest of the house as pictured) and 9ft ceilings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Those two dimensions are very close to the dreaded 17 feet as I experienced in one of the apartments I was in. The sound was horrible there and when I moved the problem was corrected. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomR Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 get a good vintage STEREO receiver and you will be shocked at what you hear. It doesnt have to be a lot of wattage either. Then just sit back and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, AHall said: See above post. The kg4s aren't usually in there. Nor do they really need a sub. Putting them up on stands will leave it slightly shy in the bass department and why i mentioned the sub is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtr20 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Where are you located? Maybe someone on the forum can bring over some equipment to test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHall Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 hours ago, JJkizak said: Those two dimensions are very close to the dreaded 17 feet as I experienced in one of the apartments I was in. The sound was horrible there and when I moved the problem was corrected. JJK I sure hope not. I was planning on keeping this house for a while after I finish the remodel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHall Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, dtr20 said: Where are you located? Maybe someone on the forum can bring over some equipment to test. In the western slope of Colorado. There doesn't seem to be many interested in music here until you get near Denver. 3 hours ago, TomR said: get a good vintage STEREO receiver and you will be shocked at what you hear. It doesnt have to be a lot of wattage either. Then just sit back and enjoy. Have a suggested model I might keep an eye out for? I'm always in the market for that stuff. 3 hours ago, jason str said: Putting them up on stands will leave it slightly shy in the bass department and why i mentioned the sub is all. I wasn't trying to be smart. I was just mentioning how impressed I am with their perform for their size. Such an easy listening speaker. Although I have new caps for them so I can make sure they are performing as good as they can. I need to figure out what goes where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well being a new AVR owner and going through this same thing I think its the AVR settings. If not that,,, its probably out of phase check wires going to bass bin especially if you took them apart to move them. I used the auto set up on my Integra did not like that sound so I went in to equalizer settings and adjusted manually.....MUCH BETTER NOW .... I still need to do some more adjustments but on the auto set up it was real thin sounding. It has an option on mine to switch back between audyssey and manual settings. Before I got the Integra the Ks were hooked up to a HK 430 with 24 watts that would make rock concert levels and sounded awesome. If you cant find a stereo receiver to borrow Accerories4less has good buys on them in fact I was thinking of getting this one for my scalas to try out.... http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8020/onkyo-tx-8020-2-x-50-watts-stereo-receiver/1.html mainly to see if it keeps up with the HK 730 I got hooked up now. Look at that site some times they even have better deals and different receivers I shy away from the yamahas because I had an older one with 80 watts and the HK blew its socks off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 5:51 PM, AHall said: I feel like I'm missing an inside joke with the bees wax. On 6/7/2017 at 6:48 PM, jimjimbo said: Don't worry, it's not that funny..... He's right... the newest & greatest is ear-wax....beeswax is so yesterday..... I once had my LaScalas connected to a Yamaha receiver. I then "upgraded" to a Yamaha AVR (forget model number, been years ago) and the life was sucked right out of them. I was fearful of that situation today so I use an AVR with individual amps connected to each speaker (AVR has no amps in it) I'd try a single speaker in mono to help rule out a phase issue too but my first glance would be the AVR and trying to rule it in or out. Bunch of smarties here, they'll get you where you want to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, ricktate said: Well being a new AVR owner and going through this same thing I think its the AVR settings. If not that,,, its probably out of phase check wires going to bass bin especially if you took them apart to move them. I used the auto set up on my Integra did not like that sound so I went in to equalizer settings and adjusted manually.....MUCH BETTER NOW .... I still need to do some more adjustments but on the auto set up it was real thin sounding. It has an option on mine to switch back between audyssey and manual settings. Before I got the Integra the Ks were hooked up to a HK 430 with 24 watts that would make rock concert levels and sounded awesome. If you cant find a stereo receiver to borrow Accerories4less has good buys on them in fact I was thinking of getting this one for my scalas to try out.... http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8020/onkyo-tx-8020-2-x-50-watts-stereo-receiver/1.html mainly to see if it keeps up with the HK 730 I got hooked up now. Look at that site some times they even have better deals and different receivers I shy away from the yamahas because I had an older one with 80 watts and the HK blew its socks off. That Onkyo sounds like crap, take a pass on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I need to be blunt on this one. The OP stated the K-Horns sounded great when he listened to them at the seller's place. He then brings them home and the bass is lacking. In attempt to solve this, he gets new mid-drivers, new tweeters, and a tube amp. The problem persists. The problem is clearly room interactions or the geometry of the placement. In spite of this, folks continue to suggest swapping the electronics. I am afraid the collective thinking has become very muddled. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, PrestonTom said: The problem is clearly room interactions or the geometry of the placement. Pretty sure I said the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtr20 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 40 minutes ago, PrestonTom said: I need to be blunt on this one. The OP stated the K-Horns sounded great when he listened to them at the seller's place. He then brings them home and the bass is lacking. In attempt to solve this, he gets new mid-drivers, new tweeters, and a tube amp. The problem persists. The problem is clearly room interactions or the geometry of the placement. In spite of this, folks continue to suggest swapping the electronics. I am afraid the collective thinking has become very muddled. The main difference here besides room differences, is the receiver is different as well. We can't forget about the source/amplifier difference. He demoed the khorns at someone else's house with their equipment. I agree about the mid-range and tweeters, but my gut feeling is the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 hours ago, dtr20 said: The main difference here besides room differences, is the receiver is different as well. We can't forget about the source/amplifier difference. He demoed the khorns at someone else's house with their equipment. I agree about the mid-range and tweeters, but my gut feeling is the receiver. The Klipschorns have tons of efficiency and do not present a very low impedance nor a very reactive impedance. IOW, they are an easy speaker to drive. So we will need to agree to disagree on whether the receiver is the likely culprit. The complaint from the OP is that the bass is "lacking". IMHO, effort should be spent on acoustics and not electronics. In either case, I hope the OP solves his problem, but I will bow out now and let others help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It will be interesting to see if he gets the K-horns to perform properly but I would bet against it due to the room dimensions. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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