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Chris A

An Unofficial Klipsch Jubilee Buyer's Guide

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On 9/30/2019 at 2:03 PM, OilyBoy said:

Can somebody please upload a picture of their KPT 535B MF and HF drivers? i cant find any stamps in or on mine. 

 

@OilyBoy, Here are KT-1133 and K69A from my KPT 535/4. Should be the same as yours.

 

IMG_6347.JPG.069e528af4047c96ad7303e070dcefc1.JPG

Edited by Khornukopia
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You probably won't get what you're asking for here.  I recommend contacting someone at Klipsch to get your question answered--someone in Klipsch Professional (Cinema) from Hope, AR. (One of those people is Roy.Delgado@Klipsch.com, but there are others that could answer the question, too.)

 

But...I'm about 90% sure that you've got K-1133 midrange drivers and Klipsch crossovers--they look like Klipsch crossovers.  Here is another picture of a similar setup:

 

 

Chris

 

 

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On 9/30/2019 at 7:04 AM, OilyBoy said:

Yep its me, i came across that topic at the time, the day before i¬†picked them¬† up, which was allready planned fot a week¬†lolūüėā

 

YOU are welcomed !  

 

Hey Oily , where in Netherlands are you.  I visit there quit often. 

 

I Will be there next week, again. 

(My wife is 100% dutch, born near Hook Van Holland)

 

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22 hours ago, Born2RockU said:

YOU are welcomed !  

 

Hey Oily , where in Netherlands are you.  I visit there quit often. 

 

I Will be there next week, again. 

(My wife is 100% dutch, born near Hook Van Holland)

 

Hey man! Tanks a lot. thats so funny, i live 10 minutes near Hoek van Holland¬†ūüėģ¬†your wife must know where i come from (De Lier)

I have allready contacted Roy a while ago.

The problem with my Jubs is that in the past they are sold in an execution auction. the story goes that during the auction someone stole the name plate / sticker.

Or … is there never a sticker/nameplate/serial number on jubs??

 

before buying i had my doubts on weither they were authentic at first. but when i saw them at the sellers place i was quite sure they were the real deal.

after i send some pictures Roy confirmed they are Genue, and confirmed it is a KPT 535 system. 

So .. the drivers are Always the same on de 535?

 

 

Thanks guys! and Born2Rocku … we`ll keep in touch man! :) 

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hi Sjoerd, just started a nice line text to you about my 535b and when I sent you 1 photo it said I maxed out the site. pm me and I'll send me all the relevant photos of mine you'd like. best of luck with with yours. rosey

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@Chris,

 

Thank you for this information regarding the Jubilees. As an avid music listener,  I find that your technical insight and dedication to the Jubilee speaker system must mean that the Jubilee has imparted something special in sound quality and/or other attributes in which you, and a few others have cherished. To me, that is a sign of a speakers ability through design to be able to impart such qualities resulting in many spoken superlatives about the Jubilee.  I have been very satisfied and love the sound of my system with the exception of the dynamic scale which eats up my McIntosh MC2301 300 watt tube amps on the B&W 800s. The Jubilee would serve to alleviate that issue. I do have a few questions as I have never owned any horns except my JBLs in the barracks back in the 80s. 
 

1. What are the low level micro dynamics of the Jubilees? In other words, do the Jubilees come alive with pristine cymbals and trumpet instruments at low volume as well as higher volume? As you know, a normal speaker, especially the 800s, require a certain volume level to push these musical traits to the forefront in order to be heard easily. I am really interested in how low level shimmer and vocals sound without having to crank it up. Which leads to my second question.

 

2. The original Jubilee is supposed to be a 2 way configuration. Is their any sonic degradation (noise, distortion, etc.) by going to a three way vice 2 way due to the added complexity of a larger crossover network? 
 

3. A few Jubilee owners¬†have opted to change to the TAD 4001 or 4002 MF. Is the Jubilee not capable in¬†playing¬†the attributes listed in question 1 above in a quality manner?¬†I know we like to mod stuff in this hobby, but I never had to mod my normal dynamic speakers as they were good as is. I would like to think we could purchase the Jubilees as is and play immediately; granted that the requisite hardware is available to support playing. Not to say that I am not willing to spend extra to eek out that last bit of increased performance.¬†Which leads to question 4, cost of ownership to get to the level of quality that is ‚Äúrequired‚ÄĚ to sound good. Note that I am emphasizing the required because of the add on of the other TAF or Fatal¬†drivers to increase musical capabilities certainly adds to the cost and¬†time to enjoy the Jubilees.¬†
 

4. After having read every thread on Jubilees within this last week, it is apparent to me that they are not quite a plug and play solution unless you have the crossover, DSP preferably, and a another set of amps to bi-amp to the bass beforehand. Those items could invariably add considerable costs if one were to seek out new top of the line components, or not so much, if lesser brand names, and buying used. The point I am making here is the costs of ownership could very well add up to the costs of a new set of Klipschorns, depending on which components you purchase in order to be able to play at the bare minimum. Throw in the TAD drivers, and the costs could easily surpasses the Klipschorns.  The bottom line, a few have ventured down this path to achieve sonic bliss increasing their musical pleasure. This is not a bad thing, but, one must really understand that their are other costs, in time and money. I am willing to go down that path thanks to the technical information and modeling you posted. I guess it’s a mind set to own Klispch and also a mind set to be able to tweak beyond the manufacturer specs to achieve even higher levels of musical bliss. 
 

I did end up going to a fellow Klipschorn forum members house and listened to his Jubilees with the TAD drivers, and wow, what an exhilarating experience. My listening benchmark is the Jubilee with TAD but not stock. Any knowledge you could share about stock Jubilee sound would be great. Thank you.

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Audio quest, you bring up a number of interesting points and you also remind me of a "difficulty" that I have when folks talk about Jubilees. 

Since you have listened to Jubilees (with the TAD drivers), you have a good idea of what Jubilees can do. They really are a very good Speaker and Roy Delgado should be commended.

 

You have also probably read a number of posts that discuss the modifications that folks might do. The problem is (and hence my "difficulty") that folks may come away thinking that stock Jubilees are somehow deficient in their stock form. I am not beating up on my fellow Jubilee enthusiasts, but I will be blunt. Stock Jubilees are NOT deficient. For most folks, even in their stock form, they are probably the best speaker most will have ever heard. PERIOD!!!

 

There are upgrades available for the DIYer. Even I have engaged in some and yes, there is an improvement. Does that mean I think the stock versions are inherently sub-standard. No, absolutely not. They are a great speaker. If you liked what you heard (with the TAD drivers), I am sure you will still like the stock Jubilees. 

 

If what you are asking is (my words): can any car  be made to handle better by installing some expensive shocks and tires? Yes .... but it does not mean the stock car was somehow medicore. 

 

As far as the DSP crossovers go, there has been some dedicated work on improving the crossover settings and equalization on the Jubilee. I applaud these efforts. However, even using last year's technology (the Electrovoice Dx 38 with Roy's settings) the Jubilee will sound great. When I got/fabricated my Jubilees, I used a Behringer 2496 DCX (hardly high end stuff). You know what - it sounded great and I never felt that I was somehow "cheated". 

 

Part of my "difficulty" is that when folks read about all the modifications and details on setting up the DSP crossover, they come away thinking that the Jubilee is not plug-and-play. Nothing could be further from the truth. Get a used Electrovoice or Behringer if you want to save some money (or get something better) and start out with Roy's filter settings. They will sound wonderful (even with mid-priced amplifiers)

 

In the future, if you want to get the fancy shocks and tires, then by all means go for it. However, please don't think you will be disappointed by stock version when it arrives on your door step. 

 

I am done ranting. I hope my comments are not taken as a knock on any of you who have gone the extra mile with what you have been able to do. It is important that folks thinking about getting Jubilees are not scared off by all the talk of "modifications".

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

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Hey Tom,

 

Thank you. Your car analogy is perfect and¬†really brings it home to me as I am a car guy.¬†I used to race at Hockenheim, Germany with a highly ‚Äúmodded‚ÄĚ Z06 Corvette. Yes, stock was not bad, but adding racing brakes, suspension, and all of those coolers sure helped performance until I was able to easily out handle GT3s.¬†

 

‚ÄúIf what you are asking is (my words): can any car ¬†be made to handle better by installing some expensive shocks and tires? Yes .... but it does not mean the stock car was somehow medicore‚ÄĚ

 

Your response not only enlightened me, but perhaps a few others who may be interested in Jubilees but not willing to deep dive so to speak. In that context, I am eager and look forward to trying these Jubilees as part of a new chapter in my newly acquired listening tastes. If that means I may mod in the future, so be it. It’s all for fun, joy, and passion for the hobby. Life is too short and you only live once. Thank you, I greatly appreciate you summarizing so bluntly, which was eye opening for all,  not just me. 

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since this can has been opened, I too am on an upgrade path for my reciently recieved 535b jubilee 2nd hand set. has there been any general consensus amongst the community on a particular bass driver/ drivers as replacements/ upgrades for the k 31 e OEM's?

thx much 

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1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

Audio quest, you bring up a number of interesting points and you also remind me of a "difficulty" that I have when folks talk about Jubilees. 

Since you have listened to Jubilees (with the TAD drivers), you have a good idea of what Jubilees can do. They really are a very good Speaker and Roy Delgado should be commended.

 

You have also probably read a number of posts that discuss the modifications that folks might do. The problem is (and hence my "difficulty") that folks may come away thinking that stock Jubilees are somehow deficient in their stock form. I am not beating up on my fellow Jubilee enthusiasts, but I will be blunt. Stock Jubilees are NOT deficient. For most folks, even in their stock form, they are probably the best speaker most will have ever heard. PERIOD!!!

 

There are upgrades available for the DIYer. Even I have engaged in some and yes, there is an improvement. Does that mean I think the stock versions are inherently sub-standard. No, absolutely not. They are a great speaker. If you liked what you heard (with the TAD drivers), I am sure you will still like the stock Jubilees. 

 

If what you are asking is (my words): can any car  be made to handle better by installing some expensive shocks and tires? Yes .... but it does not mean the stock car was somehow medicore. 

 

As far as the DSP crossovers go, there has been some dedicated work on improving the crossover settings and equalization on the Jubilee. I applaud these efforts. However, even using last year's technology (the Electrovoice Dx 38 with Roy's settings) the Jubilee will sound great. When I got/fabricated my Jubilees, I used a Behringer 2496 DCX (hardly high end stuff). You know what - it sounded great and I never felt that I was somehow "cheated". 

 

Part of my "difficulty" is that when folks read about all the modifications and details on setting up the DSP crossover, they come away thinking that the Jubilee is not plug-and-play. Nothing could be further from the truth. Get a used Electrovoice or Behringer if you want to save some money (or get something better) and start out with Roy's filter settings. They will sound wonderful (even with mid-priced amplifiers)

 

In the future, if you want to get the fancy shocks and tires, then by all means go for it. However, please don't think you will be disappointed by stock version when it arrives on your door step. 

 

I am done ranting. I hope my comments are not taken as a knock on any of you who have gone the extra mile with what you have been able to do. It is important that folks thinking about getting Jubilees are not scared off by all the talk of "modifications".

 

Good Luck,

-Tom


Well said my friend ūüĎćūüôā

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41 minutes ago, rosey said:

since this can has been opened, I too am on an upgrade path for my reciently recieved 535b jubilee 2nd hand set. has there been any general consensus amongst the community on a particular bass driver/ drivers as replacements/ upgrades for the k 31 e OEM's?

thx much 

Maybe a separate thread would be better for discussing modifications. This thread started out as a "buyer's guide". We should probably get back to that.

Incidentally the K-31's are certainly not the weak link in the Jubilee, IMHO.

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thanks tom, done. since this can has been opened, I too am on an upgrade path for my reciently recieved 535b jubilee 2nd hand set. has there been any general consensus amongst the community on a particular bass driver/ drivers as replacements/ upgrades for the k 31 e OEM's? 

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56 minutes ago, rosey said:

thanks tom, done. since this can has been opened, I too am on an upgrade path for my reciently recieved 535b jubilee 2nd hand set. has there been any general consensus amongst the community on a particular bass driver/ drivers as replacements/ upgrades for the k 31 e OEM's? 

Rosey, did you want me split this question off into a separate thread in the Klipsch Pro section?

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Before we get into "crusading" on the subject of Jubilees and before answering the above questions, I just want to say that it's okay to ask the sort of questions posed above, but with the understanding that these Jubilee customizations are for those that are seeking to squeeze the last ~5% of performance out of them.  The changes discussed below are meant for those "maximizers" that want that extra 5% up front and are willing to pay the difference in order to avoid the perhaps 12 years of tinkering that it took me.  Please don't think of these changes as either necessary or even commonly performed, because some of these tweaks are relatively rare among Jubilee owners.

 

So it should be understood that stock Jubilees will blow away any loudspeaker that mere mortals have heard, i.e., the common rank-and-file home hi-fi enthusiast. No arguments there.

 

Chris

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On 12/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, audioquest4life said:

1. What are the low level micro dynamics of the Jubilees? In other words, do the Jubilees come alive with pristine cymbals and trumpet instruments at low volume as well as higher volume? As you know, a normal speaker, especially the 800s, require a certain volume level to push these musical traits to the forefront in order to be heard easily. I am really interested in how low level shimmer and vocals sound without having to crank it up.

There is no "threshold" for low volume level with the Jubilees like your Bowers & Wilkins 800s.  If you heard the Jubilees before, you should be able to answer your own question here.  I believe that the root problem is the low efficiency midrange and tweeter drivers used in the direct radiating designs.  Since the equal loudness contours show a significant loss of aural acuity at low frequencies relative to midrange and lower treble frequencies, lower frequencies are typically not the issue because the human hearing system expects to lose the ability to hear very low frequencies at very low SPL:

 

figure-1.png

 

The issue becomes midrange and tweeter drivers that are designed for high power input and high power dissipation because of their low efficiency, then the problems of stiction and thresholding at very low SPL apparently becomes an issue with these drivers from B&W.  There are no equivalent issues with the higher efficiency horn-loaded drivers from Klipsch and other third parties.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, audioquest4life said:

2. The original Jubilee is supposed to be a 2 way configuration. Is their any sonic degradation (noise, distortion, etc.) by going to a three way vice 2 way due to the added complexity of a larger crossover network? 

Yes there is degradation: severe polar lobing for home hi-fi use due to the addition of another horn aperture for the tweeter (not at all related to "crossover complexity"), and the vertical offset of that tweeter horn-driver by many wavelengths, which causes lobing and self-cancellations.  If you want a three-way, then use a BMS 4592ND dual diaphragm compression driver, which avoids the issues of dual horn apertures and vertical offsets.  The three-way design (KPT-Jubilee/535-B) is meant for commercial cinema application where the power output must be spread over three drivers instead of two for the extreme SPL/power output requirements.  The commercial cinema loudspeakers also have a much greater minimum listening distance than do home hi-fi loudspeakers.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, audioquest4life said:

3. A few Jubilee owners have opted to change to the TAD 4001 or 4002 MF. Is the Jubilee not capable in playing the attributes listed in question 1 above in a quality manner?...

The K-691 driver is a good driver that does extremely well for its price class.  It's also not terribly difficult to identify it when playing recordings with lots of cymbals, particularly ride cymbals--like small bebop combo.  The breakup frequency is 13.8 kHz on the K-402 horn--the frequency that it goes into significant non-pistonic modes.  This driver does very well for a lot of Jubilee owners, especially those that are budget conscious.  If you're here asking questions about better 2" for the two-way (home hi-fi version) Jubilee compression drivers, then you're not a "typical Jubilee customer". 

 

In the late 2000s, Klipsch offered special drivers (TAD TD-4002s) for very special customers, i.e., a very large cinema house that buys many auditoriums worth of loudspeakers on a yearly basis.  Since that time, the TAD TD-4002 has gone out of production (and so has the K-69-A), so the settings published for the two-way home Jubilee from that era are no longer viable for new Jubilees owners with the K-691 driver.  No one that I know is buying new EV Dx38 DSP crossovers, rather they would likely consider Xilica or perhaps the EV DC-One, or even the very inexpensive miniDSP 2 x 4 HD--with a bit higher noise quiescently and common mode noise than the other DSP crossovers.

 

If you are thinking about more expensive, higher performing 2" compression drivers, I can offer you my services to help dial them in, but note that (to my knowledge) Klipsch does not support these type of drivers.  Many original Jubilee owners from the 2000s (including myself) upgraded to TAD TD-4002s before they went out of availability.  Now, there is a small set of drivers from different manufacturers that have two-way Jubilee settings for them.  This is due to the work of third parties and one non-profit member of this forum ("yours truly").

 

[BTW: The TAD TD-4002 is not a "MF" driver--rather it is a "full range compression driver".]

 

However, the K-691 driver has published settings from Roy (i.e., Klipsch) that will work for Xilica DSP crossovers (found on this forum and from at least one Klipsch dealer: MetropolisLakeOutfitters). This is the current baseline for "stock" Jubilees, unless settings for the EV DSP crossovers has also been published (you can talk to Cory or Roy for that information). 

 

On 12/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, audioquest4life said:

4. After having read every thread on Jubilees within this last week, it is apparent to me that they are not quite a plug-and-play solution unless you have the crossover, DSP preferably, and a another set of amps to bi-amp to the bass beforehand.

This is not true: the last time I checked, MetropolisLakeOutfitters will sell you Jubilees and a Xilica crossover with settings preloaded for the K-691--Roy's settings.  I'm not sure what else matters.  The extra amplifiers that you mention is, in my experience, not much of an issue in practice because most audio enthusiasts that I know that would be in the market for Jubilees already own amplifiers, one of which that can easily do the duty for the bass bins (assuming horizontal bi-amping).  If however you are only considering vertical bi-amping, then you will need matched amplifiers, one for powering the left channel loudspeaker, and one for the right (assuming a stereo setup, not multichannel).

 

On 12/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, audioquest4life said:

I did end up going to a fellow Klipschorn forum members house and listened to his Jubilees with the TAD drivers, and wow, what an exhilarating experience. My listening benchmark is the Jubilee with TAD but not stock. Any knowledge you could share about stock Jubilee sound would be great. Thank you.

I just did (above).  I recommend using the supplied K-691s and a Xilica crossover, preloaded with Roy's settings for the K-691.  Then let your ears be the judge.  Many owners stop there and listen to them in that configuration for the duration.  If you are then dissatisfied, then unlike any other Klipsch loudspeaker that I'm aware of, you have options to upgrade your compression drivers for the price of the drivers themselves (direct from a dealer).  This is a benefit of owning Jubilees...definitely not a burden...

 

Chris

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