An Unofficial Klipsch Jubilee Buyer's Guide

[audioquest4life]

21 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Somewhere along the ling is the issue of that slippery slope term of synergy. Some things just work while others don't and out they go.

 

Bruce

That’s a very profound statement....synergy of equipment, listening preferences, and acoustical space all affect the final resultant sound characteristics. It seems for sure that the Crowns do great with Klipsch. I wanted to test if Crown would be just as good with the B&Ws bass sections.

 

It seems that the general consensus after years of experimentation any many listening hours that Klipsch and Crown are a match made in heaven. I equate that to the tests that Indian forefathers in North America did with homeopathic and natural medicines...after a few deaths, and illnesses, Eventually tested formulas were proven to work. 
 

I am still planning on getting a set of the Jubilee 2 way sometime in the future. 

[polizzio]

2 hours ago, audioquest4life said:

That’s a very profound statement....synergy of equipment, listening preferences, and acoustical space all affect the final resultant sound characteristics. It seems for sure that the Crowns do great with Klipsch. I wanted to test if Crown would be just as good with the B&Ws bass sections.

 

It seems that the general consensus after years of experimentation any many listening hours that Klipsch and Crown are a match made in heaven. I equate that to the tests that Indian forefathers in North America did with homeopathic and natural medicines...after a few deaths, and illnesses, Eventually tested formulas were proven to work. 

 

I had a Crown XLS 1002 model and for the price, there is considerable power. But right in their published specs THD+N is rated @ .5% at max output. So they get noisy when you crank up the gain. My unit was quiet at low to medium gain, but turn up the gain to 80-100% and you can def hear a hum/noise at the speakers with the input signal paused.

So you have to respect them for what they were designed to be.......PA amps.

 

I'm thinking about purchasing an XLS-2502 to run off my avr's pre outs to my mains, knowing I will only use 30-60% of its total output maybe, and below the audible noise ceiling. Class D efficiency, simple DSP signal processing, 440 watts per channel stereo into an 8 ohm load for $600 delivered. And they generate so little external heat. I never ever heard its little fan running across the room. Used the first one bridged to power a passive sub build. No start up pops or bad habits. Where can you purchase that level of power for so little $?

[audioquest4life]

For that price it’s worth experimenting again to try how class D sounds...hmmm. 

[polizzio]

This Peachtree amp may be a better idea. 500 wpc, massive damping factor, and they are @ special price right now: https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/amp500-power-amplifier.html

 

Made in the USA too, just like Klipsch Heritage

[OO1]

 

 

-

[Islander]

Odd.  The Peachtree page describes the 500 as having a custom Class A input stage, but nothing about the power section.  From the size and lack of external cooling fins, the amp is very likely Class D, but there’s no mention of that.  I wonder why?

[polizzio]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

Odd.  The Peachtree page describes the 500 as having a custom Class A input stage, but nothing about the power section.  From the size and lack of external cooling fins, the amp is very likely Class D, but there’s no mention of that.  I wonder why?

 

Yes from the size and weight (read small) of it I agree class D. In the specs its rated 500 wpc @ <1% THD+N which to me is stating it does get noisy at its max rated power level. The damping is really high @ >650. All of the specs look good except the noise rating @ 500 wpc. The output is not McIntosh like. But again its $1500 delivered, and assembled in the USA. I'm guessing ICE module based on sheer size and price. Lot of power for the price. I'm still evaluating this amp or the Crown xls 2502 to use with my avr pre amp out, mains only.

[polizzio]

I wish the Peachtree amp had L+R gain controls on it. Just a couple simple rotary pots.

 

I keep telling myself "just be happy, 30-40 clean wpc with some headroom is enough for my CWs".......... protect you hearing, dummy. Don't cave in to the sickness.

[OilyBoy]

Hey Guys!,

 

You havent heard of me for a while,

Thank you for all responds to my question(s).

I nearly even got a visit from @Born2RockU   since he litteraly passed my house lol. His time window was to small on his last trip

But i am certain we`ll meet on some of his next trips.

 

Unfortionatly i lack the time and space at this moment to further play with my Jubs so i will

put them in storage for the coming time. When i have a place for myself that allows them to bloom

i wil start with the REW, still havent done that. And i cant wait to be honest.

 

I did buy me some MOSFET monoblocks this week from a guy here in the Netherlands who builds these himself. they deliver 150 Watts, nicely built with oversized Power supply and High damping factor.

I am planning to use these for the LF cabinets and then swap between my different tube amps to find out which suits the MF/HF best.

choices are between: Mcintosch MC275, Welbourne labs DRD 45, Dared VP 300B,  Sun Audio 2a3 Clone, Eastern Electric MiniMax,  and whatever comes around in the future.

Do you guys prefer a certain tipe of tube to go with the MF/HF drivers an horns?

 

Preamp will be a MC220 and for the active crossover i will still use the Apex Intelli X2. only downside is the fan which i really rear. is this better with the Xilicas?.

 

Thanks guys speak to you soon!

 

 

 

 

[Chris A]

4 hours ago, OilyBoy said:

...and for the active crossover i will still use the Apex Intelli X2. only downside is the fan which i really hear. is this better with the Xilicas?

The Xilicas don't have fans. I suppose that the higher processing required for using FIR filters is probably the reason for the fans: https://www.apex-audio.be/products/intelli-x-2-48/

 

The following taken from here:

 

Quote

The main disadvantage of FIR filters is that considerably more computation power in a general purpose processor is required compared to an IIR filter with similar sharpness or selectivity, especially when low frequency (relative to the sample rate) cutoffs are needed. However, many digital signal processors provide specialized hardware features to make FIR filters approximately as efficient as IIR for many applications.

However, the ability to flatten the phase response as well as SPL response (even using steep crossover filters) is an advantage--if you can isolate the fan noise.

 

Chris

[ClaudeJ1]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:00 AM, polizzio said:

 

I had a Crown XLS 1002 model and for the price, there is considerable power. But right in their published specs THD+N is rated @ .5% at max output. So they get noisy when you crank up the gain. My unit was quiet at low to medium gain, but turn up the gain to 80-100% and you can def hear a hum/noise at the speakers with the input signal paused.

So you have to respect them for what they were designed to be.......PA amps.

 

I'm thinking about purchasing an XLS-2502 to run off my avr's pre outs to my mains, knowing I will only use 30-60% of its total output maybe, and below the audible noise ceiling. Class D efficiency, simple DSP signal processing, 440 watts per channel stereo into an 8 ohm load for $600 delivered. And they generate so little external heat. I never ever heard its little fan running across the room. Used the first one bridged to power a passive sub build. No start up pops or bad habits. Where can you purchase that level of power for so little $?

This "noisy" thing is why I simply recommend putting a 20 Kohm Potentiometer between the pre amp and power amp for horns/compression drivers that have, typically, a 106-112 db sensitivity. Knock down the series gain by 20 db or so, and you will force the pre-amp to use a higher DRIVE VOLTAGE by that amount, which will drive the noise down. Try it, you'll like it.

[juniper]

I use my "jubes" as simply as i can, i just run a DX38 with a Yamaha MX1000, a panasonic SAXR 55 on top, and a HK7600II as a preamp/ cd player... I had a guy hear who heard a few 200k plus systems, his jaw feel out of his head..... My other systems i use more pricey EQ, Jubilees are just so forgiving its crazy.... synergy is everything, EQ, space, and sound absortion.....

[polizzio]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:03 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

This "noisy" thing is why I simply recommend putting a 20 Kohm Potentiometer between the pre amp and power amp for horns/compression drivers that have, typically, a 106-112 db sensitivity. Knock down the series gain by 20 db or so, and you will force the pre-amp to use a higher DRIVE VOLTAGE by that amount, which will drive the noise down. Try it, you'll like it.

 

That would be just duplicating what is already there on the XLS series of Crown amps........the Left and Right channel gain pots present on the amp. Like I said earlier, these XLS amps are PA amps and if you expect total silence @ 90-100% gain, you will be disappointed. Even with fabric/textile tweeters, or a LF driver. Respect their limitations and there is reward for the price of admission.

Oh and I forgot to add the XLS series has two selectable input sensitivities, .775 and 1.4 volt.

 

The opposite of the XLS is a used McIntosh MC-150 amp I recently picked up. Rated @ 150 wpc 2, 4, or 8 ohm load @ .005% THD. Pause signal, max gain = total silence. Weighs 60 lbs. Mac rates their amps @ full output, not cheater "10 watts" or other BS numbers.

[Marvel]

2 hours ago, polizzio said:

...if you expect total silence @ 90-100% gain, you will be disappointed.

 

I have a passive on my MWM, and La Scala tops, and using my XLi800 with the gains about 10 o'clock, I have volume in room that can be way too loud and it is dead silent between tracks. Turn down your input gain and turn up your preamp.

 

Were you actually running at 90% output on the amplifier? I doubt it. You should turn the amp down until you don't hear any output noise, then turn up your preamp to the level you want.

 

 

[polizzio]

2 hours ago, Marvel said:

 

I have a passive on my MWM, and La Scala tops, and using my XLi800 with the gains about 10 o'clock, I have volume in room that can be way too loud and it is dead silent between tracks. Turn down your input gain and turn up your preamp.

 

Were you actually running at 90% output on the amplifier? I doubt it. You should turn the amp down until you don't hear any output noise, then turn up your preamp to the level you want.

 

 

 

I was being very generous about the "90-100% gain" in that statement. In reality I could hear audible noise from the amp @ approx 75 or 80% gain. This was an XLS 1002 I was running bridged to power a 4 ohm sub. Supposedly 1100 watts max power and I briefly ran it 100% into an 18" transducer sealed sub I assembled full range in testing. Pause the input signal and listen to the amp hum via the transducer. Low level but clearly there and audible. 

 

Additional proof is in Crown's published data on amp performance: .5% THD @ rated output power. The same rating on all the XLS models (diff power output max levels) and the XLI800 you mention.

.5% THD is readily audible, anything over ~ .25% is audible. Like I said 3x now, they are pro PA amps by design but if you use them @ substantially below their rated output, they do sound clean for home stereo usage. No doubt in your usage you probably never use even 40% full power with your efficient MWM/lascala tops.

These amps were never marketed by Crown or any vendor I know of as "home stereo hi fidelity equipment". Many guys on audio forums found them useful as sub amps, especially with rca inputs and the DSP/filters.

 

 

[Marvel]

True that...

 

The Xli series are all still class AB and no dsp as well.  A question for you. When you paused the input signal, the input is still on? Did you check the amp with a shorting plug on the input with no input from other equipment connected?

[ClaudeJ1]

34 minutes ago, Marvel said:

True that...

 

The Xli series are all still class AB and no dsp as well.  A question for you. When you paused the input signal, the input is still on? Did you check the amp with a shorting plug on the input with no input from other equipment connected?

Good troubleshooting advice!

 

[ClaudeJ1]

5 hours ago, polizzio said:

Oh and I forgot to add the XLS series has two selectable input sensitivities, .775 and 1.4 volt.

Not being familiar with that specific model.........thanks for telling me they have POTS built in. I would use the 1.4 volt setting AND the pots to get the Pre Amp to throw out a higher voltage to compensate. Noise is always a relative thing as long as you don't have ground loops, which dominate.

[polizzio]

3 hours ago, Marvel said:

True that...

 

The Xli series are all still class AB and no dsp as well.  A question for you. When you paused the input signal, the input is still on? Did you check the amp with a shorting plug on the input with no input from other equipment connected?

 

The input was the headphone output from my Cowon dap into the rcas. Paused the file, then re-started. No, I did not check with a shorting plug. Yes, the input while paused is still on because if the dap times out and powers off, then there is a loud hum. Same with a couple others amps I have, if i turn on the amp first, it generates a loud hum until dap is started. I always turn amp on last, and first off. Grant you with my source paused the hum was audible in close proximity with the transducer, and with the signal playing we're talking about a very loud output.

 

I have no experience with the Xli series. 

[habinger808]

Can 3way jubilees be run entirely by a tube amp?... If so, how would the LF section compare to the MF/HF sections “sound” wise?