"Musical" Subwoofer to Complement Cornwall IIs?

[formanj]

I am currently running a McIntosh separates system (MC225 tube amp, MR-78 Tuner, C32 Preamp) with my Klipsch Cornwall IIs, and I currently have a Klipsch R-120SW subwoofer that is simply not doing it for me.  I am primarily playing 2-channel analog music through this system, but I do listen to CDs from time to time.  I am looking for a "MUSICAL" sub to provide low end punch without to much "boominess" or distortion.  I would like something that would be easy to "blend" in with the Cornwalls, and my budget is around $1000.  Any suggestions from those who may have experience with the Cornwalls and subwoofers?

[wuzzzer]

Any sealed SVS sub.

[jason str]

2 ported 15s need something substantial.

 

Start looking at multiple 15s and up, horns blend nice.

 

Grand will getcha Minidsp, mic & 2 of the bigger Dayton audio subs. good start

[Shakeydeal]

I used a pair of HSU ULS-15 II subs with Cornwall IVs and now use them with my LS IIs. Very musical subs.

[001]

you dont "need" something substantial... as wuzzzer mentioned a mid level sealed (or ported) SVS sub or comparable brand like HSU will fill in the lower octave range nicely & sealed subs will be very musical.  its not always about max DB & huge subs that dont fit well in many rooms or the WAF etc.  also dont always need the absolute lowest hz, most music doesnt go much below ~40hz but most klipsch speakers fall off fast below that number so all you really need is a decent quality sub to fill in where the speakers drop off.  yes horn loaded subs are best for horn loaded speakers but most require building them yourself &/or are very expensive & need an external amp to drive them. 

 

I asked a similar question about a year or so ago for a good sub for my chorus2 & got the same reply that i "need" a huge 15" ported sub or a horn sub & nothing else would work, was shown different graphs comparing max decibels of subs & told a sealed wouldnt work because chorus were "big boy" speakers & needed big subs... LOL.  i since have purchased dual SVS sb2000s & they make a huge improvement filling in that lower octave that most speakers can lack, especially at lower to medium volume levels. & they arent even tuned with a miniDSP, just played with positioning & the settings a bit but i do plan to get a mini dsp soon.  ive also owned many other subs over the years & for music i prefer a sealed sub over a ported of the brands ive owned. sealed do very well for home theater also but a ported sub will have more DB & usually go lower by a small amount so most people prefer ported over sealed for movie use. 

 

lots of used subs out there for decent prices, all depends on your budget but you cant go wrong with new SVS for the performance & especially the customer service & other benefits they offer like free in home trials, upgrade program & transferable warranties & all the free tech help you will ever need.       

[jason str]

34 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

you dont "need" something substantial... as wuzzzer mentioned a mid level sealed (or ported) SVS sub or comparable brand like HSU will fill in the lower octave range nicely & sealed subs will be very musical.  its not always about max DB & huge subs that dont fit well in many rooms or the WAF etc.  also dont always need the absolute lowest hz, most music doesnt go much below ~40hz but most klipsch speakers fall off fast below that number so all you really need is a decent quality sub to fill in where the speakers drop off.  yes horn loaded subs are best for horn loaded speakers but most require building them yourself &/or are very expensive & need an external amp to drive them. 

 

I asked a similar question about a year or so ago for a good sub for my chorus2 & got the same reply that i "need" a huge 15" ported sub or a horn sub & nothing else would work, was shown different graphs comparing max decibels of subs & told a sealed wouldnt work because chorus were "big boy" speakers & needed big subs... LOL.  i since have purchased dual SVS sb2000s & they make a huge improvement filling in that lower octave that most speakers can lack, especially at lower to medium volume levels. & they arent even tuned with a miniDSP, just played with positioning & the settings a bit but i do plan to get a mini dsp soon.  ive also owned many other subs over the years & for music i prefer a sealed sub over a ported of the brands ive owned. sealed do very well for home theater also but a ported sub will have more DB & usually go lower by a small amount so most people prefer ported over sealed for movie use. 

 

lots of used subs out there for decent prices, all depends on your budget but you cant go wrong with new SVS for the performance & especially the customer service & other benefits they offer like free in home trials, upgrade program & transferable warranties & all the free tech help you will ever need.       

ZOOM right over your head.

 

Sealed subs= double up again.

[dtr20]

I've heard very good things about REL subwoofers for music listening

[jason str]

If you don't wish to disturb the neighbors, listen to elevator music at low levels or wife won't put up with it by all means buy something to support a set of bookshelf speakers.

You want impact and immersion you don't skimp where it's needed most.

[edzu1234]

A good musical sub for you would be a M&K Dual 12" push-pull design like an MX-145.  You can pick one up used for a reasonable price.  I paid $40 for one that was cosmetically challenged off Craigslist.(Steal!)  It is not very big or heavy, but it works very well to fill in the bottom end bass for my La Scala's.  I also used it to fill in the bass on my Chorus II's (very similar range of Cornwalls) before I got the La Scala's.

[CoryGillmore]

I'm going to be getting a pair of REL T9/x subs this summer to pair with Cornwall IVs. I just recently started using my home theater Klispch (R-12SW) subs in my 2-channel system. They're crossed over at 40hz, so they just pick up where the Cornwalls fall off. Just adding a little extra grunt down low, so it still maintains the speedy textured bass of the Cornwalls. Took me a few days to dial them in perfect but even these cheap Best Buy Klipsch subs have added something to my 2-channel listening experience. Makes me excited for a pair of RELs. 

 

I think most people suck at integrating subs into their system...Their first mistake is high passing their mains at 80-120hz...Sorry but I'm not about to neuter my $6500 full range speakers below 80hz. And you shouldn't either! The Cornwall IVs have fantastic, fast and textured bass, they just don't dig very deep. So run them full range and cross the subs over where the speakers start lacking. 

[Islander]

CoryGilmore, I agree that running speakers full range is the best way to get more and better bass.  The idea that you should “let the sub do the heavy lifting, so your speaker isn’t overworked” never made any sense to me.  The speaker puts out what it can, and it doesn’t strain itself trying to do what’s impossible for it.  However, the lowest number on the speaker’s frequency response rating is -4dB on Heritage Series speakers, and they start to roll off well above that.  To find out what your speakers put out in your room, it’s best to get a sound level meter and a test CD or DVD and measure it yourself, at your listening position.  You can use graph paper, or just use a pen and ruler to make up a spreadsheet-style grid (or just use a spreadsheet on your laptop) and do a run from 200 Hz (or wherever your test disc starts) and run it right down to the bottom.  Some of those test discs go down to 10 Hz, so you can test any speaker or subwoofer..

 

I found that it was necessary to have some overlap between where the speakers start to roll off at the bottom of their range, and where the sub starts to roll off at the top of its range, to avoid a dip in the handover zone.  It can take quite a few test runs to see what’s going on and what your adjustments do, so print off a number of sheets, if you’re using paper.  It will be a useful learning experience.

[wstrickland1]

if you can find a P312w buy it

[jason str]

14 minutes ago, Islander said:

CoryGilmore, I agree that running speakers full range is the best way to get more and better bass.  The idea that you should “let the sub do the heavy lifting, so your speaker isn’t overworked” never made any sense to me.  The speaker puts out what it can, and it doesn’t strain itself trying to do what’s impossible for it.  However, the lowest number on the speaker’s frequency response rating is -4dB on Heritage Series speakers, and they start to roll off well above that.  To find out what your speakers put out in your room, it’s best to get a sound level meter and a test CD or DVD and measure it yourself, at your listening position.  You can use graph paper, or just use a pen and ruler to make up a spreadsheet-style grid (or just use a spreadsheet on your laptop) and do a run from 200 Hz (or wherever your test disc starts) and run it right down to the bottom.  Some of those test discs go down to 10 Hz, so you can test any speaker or subwoofer..

 

I found that it was necessary to have some overlap between where the speakers start to roll off at the bottom of their range, and where the sub starts to roll off at the top of its range, to avoid a dip in the handover zone.  It can take quite a few test runs to see what’s going on and what your adjustments do, so print off a number of sheets, if you’re using paper.  It will be a useful learning experience.

I disagree with the full range comment, if you integrate it right there's no problem.

 

Lots of people have slammed the frequency response of the LaScala, I love hearing that right off the bat so I know upfront they have no idea what they are talking about. Same goes with subwoofer "watts", you can't judge performance with a watt rating.

[jjptkd]

Room size and listening levels are critical in determining the "best" sub for any given situation. If you're in a small room and only listen at moderate levels a single sealed 10 or 12 would probably be just fine but if you're talking a large room I don't they'd work at all. 

 

As far as big subs keeping up with Cornwall's or CH-II's yeah, if you run them at high volume you will need a large, hefty sub with a lot of watts to keep up. I've had plenty of subs that "sounded great" with the CH-II's but after a certain volume they get drowned out by the extreme high output the CH-II's.

[Islander]

On 2/11/2022 at 8:21 AM, jason str said:

I disagree with the full range comment, if you integrate it right there's no problem.

 

Lots of people have slammed the frequency response of the LaScala, I love hearing that right off the bat so I know upfront they have no idea what they are talking about. Same goes with subwoofer "watts", you can't judge performance with a watt rating.

 

So you prefer to run La Scalas as "small"?  Okay.  I don't think either way is the only way.  Full range sounds best to me, in my room.  If the other way works best for you, I won't put it down.  Do you think I have no idea what I'm talking about, or were you thinking of someone else?  I didn't slam the Scalas' FR, but it is what it is.  Their extreme low end is limited, and you agree, or you wouldn't use any subs with yours.

 

As for describing subs by their amplifier wattage alone, that's certainly not enough to fully describe them, but it was a simple way to differentiate between two subs of the same size, from the same company.  At this point in the discussion, I thought a generic mention was the most appropriate.  When a poster gets into model names, numbers, and all the other details before the discussion gets too "granular", as they say today, to me it can come off as bragging, or the ever-popular "my gear is the best gear" rants that sometimes occur.  The recent discussion of cartridges descended into that, and I don't think that helped anyone.

[jason str]

21 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

So you prefer to run La Scala as "small"?  Okay.  I don't think either way is the only way.  Full range sounds best to me, in my room.  If the other way works best for you, I won't put it down.  As for describing subs by their amplifier wattage alone, that's certainly not enough to fully describe them, but it was a simple way to differentiate between two subs of the same size, from the same company.  At this point in the discussion , I thought a generic mention was the most appropriate.  When a poster gets into model names, numbers, and all the other details before the discussion gets too "granular", as they say today, to me it can come off as bragging, or the ever-popular "my gear is the best gear" rants that sometimes occur.  The recent discussion of cartridges descended into that, and I don't think that helped anyone..

Yes, I prefer it. Depending on room 75-90 Hz

[77SunSet]

CoryGillmore - "'I'm going to be getting a pair of REL T9/x subs this summer to pair with Cornwall IVs."  Did you get these subwoofers?  I am thinking about doing the same thing with my 2 channel Cornwall IV system and would like to hear your thoughts on this set up if you did purchase the Rels.  Thank you.

[Fido]

1 hour ago, 77SunSet said:

CoryGillmore - "'I'm going to be getting a pair of REL T9/x subs this summer to pair with Cornwall IVs."  Did you get these subwoofers?  I am thinking about doing the same thing with my 2 channel Cornwall IV system and would like to hear your thoughts on this set up if you did purchase the Rels.  Thank you.

I changed out my HSU 15 inch sub with a REL S812 to go with my Forte IVs and using the high pass connections the sound was greatly improved. The REL is so fast it appears to keep up with the Fortes. The entire frequency range seems improved and the bass response Is stunning yet it sounds like its just the Fortes playing. I think the important thing is having a fast subwoofer that blends with the speed of your mains. It was definitely a major upgrade to my system

[77SunSet]

Thank you. I am wondering how a pair of the Rel T9/x might work with the Cornwall IVs.  I currently use Alan Eaton 2A3 mono-blocks, 3 watts, for amplification with a Gustard R26 DAC playing directly into the mono-blocks.  While I am awaiting the arrival of a Khozmo passive preamp, I am using either the preamp on the DAC or the volume controls on the mono-blocks. 

[Mikekid]

I too have been running 'full range' but on our Chorus II's. Tried cutting everything off at 80hz when I was first looking into a sub many years ago. I had read about and quickly put our front pair back to full. Just didn't sound right with my ears, room and equipment being limited. I have seen a lot of REL sub posts and reviews lately and they sure are well thought of too. Especially the models mentioned above. Nice looking and surely much easier to place as well. Our son just set up a new home theater recently so I was speaking a lot about what he might get in a sub ..or two. Got updated on a lot of newest gear with him, (amazing how small, accurate and powerful these days!) but after having and running our original 2003 Hsu Vtf3 since brand new, I just cannot even think about changing that one out. LOVE it that much! And the cost factor after all these years too! One day though, a smaller one like above would sure be fine too.👍 A bit spendy for us, but ya never know.,.. PERTY too! We are primarily 'music' people as well. And those Cornwall IV's!! Oh man...Our son recently drove home with his brand new Forte IV's a couple months ago and he's got a big smile permanently attached. I have yet to fly out and visit. Best of luck to whatever route you guys go. All FUN!   👊