Cornwall IV vs KLF 20s?

[Klipschtastic]

8 hours ago, Rolox said:

The CWIV is a better speaker, even in a smallish room. I had a full afternoon demo with Cornwall IV as a BEDROOM SYSTEM and I can still say they are the best value speakers available today. PERIOD. they really are fantastic and don't need a room the size of an airport to work well, contrary to common beliefs.

 

As for the Forte 1... well, there's more to a speaker sound than just "how low the bass goes". Midrange natural and clarity, depth of image, transparency, micro details, all those areas where the Forte IV will TROUNCE any Forte 1, no matter how upgraded / restored it is. Call it overpriced marketing hype if you like, but you're wrong, the last generation Heritage is much better than ALL previous iterations, it's a fact, not a preference.

 

Rant over.

Thanks for everyone's input!  I bought the Cornwall's from Paducah home theater.  They arrived last Thursday.  After listening to them for a good 20 hours by now I am very impressed!  They beat the the KLF 20's by a good margin in about every facet except for bass impact.  The CWIVs have a much richer, more open and fuller midrange.  Guitars, vocals and drum all have more of a sense of air and space around them as if you are an observer in the venue where the recording is taking place. It is as if the midrange is three dimensional now. I always fought with the midrange on the KLFs, eventually installing an Lpad to tame them a bit.  The KLFs are wonderful with the right recordings but are more revealing of poor recordings than the Cornwalls.  In fact one of the worst recordings I have ever heard on the KLFs, Sinead O'conner's 'Drink Before the War' sounds markedly better on the Cornwalls.  I was really surprised to find myself actually enjoying it for the first time. The whole speaker sounds more integrated as one cohesive sound if that makes sense.  The CWIV are fantastic!  I am quite happy with them.  The KLFs are still a bargain on the used market even at $1500 for a nice pair but if you can afford it I recommend the CWIV.

The KLFs will be moved down to the home theater and the RF3s will be sold.

[001]

isnt it kind of unfair to compare a 25 year old speaker to a brand new speaker with much better components?  i sure hope the cornwall4 would sound better than klf20s, especially for the price difference. 

 

a more equal comparison would be to at least upgrade/replace the capacitors or full crossovers in the klf's & the tweet diaphragms to titanium.  i recall reading that the mid diaphragms in the klf series were not very good.  for a couple hundred bucks in upgrades the klfs would have at least a fighting chance against a speaker that costs ~6 times as much as used klf's.   

[Klipschtastic]

Fair enough. I have the titanium tweeter diaphrams in the KLFs but never messed with the crossovers.  Mids are still stock but I tried the Crites mid once and didn't like it as well. Seemed muffled a bit. Maybe it needed to break in?  IDK.  I'm keeping the KLFs because they are still a great speaker so maybe I will upgrade the crossovers in the future.

[Fish]

My dogs better than your dog.......funny stuff. How much is a CW4?  How much are old used klf?   It don't even matter, although an odd comparison since they basically only share manufacturer . You gotta hear a speaker to judge it.......then all that matters is your choice.

[salbake]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:41 PM, Idontknow said:

I've heard the KLF20's numerous time and have a video of their bass effects here for others interested to get an idea. I recently listened to the Cornwall 1,2's using some of the original high quality parts with a vertical midrange and although many are sold on the IV, I still think they represent a great idea on what you could expect. To me, the KLF20's are nice for music, but I'm sure even nicer for home theater stuff because they have a huge soundstage and huge bass. You do not need subs with the KLF20's. Their bass is absurd and you can hear it for yourself in this video with a pair of earbuds to get an adea. The thing with the Cornwall's is that they too have a huge soundstage but their bass is so much more musical in the sense that it's not boomy. Instead, they are tight, quick and fast and if stereo is what you are interested in, I'd definitely prefer the Cornwall's but I absolutely can not stand some of the fanboy posts in these threads where people just flat out post Cornwall IV IV IV IV without context and it continuously happens all the time in these forums. For example, the size of the room is a huge factor and I could listen to Heresy's all day in a small room compared to a Cornwall because IMO, you need to get a bit of distance away from them to take in their full impact. Anyway if it's stereo, Cornwalls all day because I just find the KLF's to be just a bit too boomy and overwhelming in the bass department and they have a sort of boxy resonating ring to them. This is why I prefer the Heresy's over the KLF20's even though the KLF's have more bass and a bigger soundstage. They're just not as musical compared to the smaller Heresy's for jazz or the Cornwall's for that matter. 

 

 

Here is my upstairs stereo and my downstairs stereo and I’d just like to say, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV….IV.

[salbake]

Sorry for being a smartass, just playing 😆! I think sometimes people write a well thought-out post on something they’re knowledgeable about, and then 2 weeks to two months later the same or similar topic gets started (which is fine, welcome to anyone new) and the responses get shorter and shorter until it just becomes “IV!”

 

Somewhere in the past I’ve written a few paragraphs about the IVs vs my old ones and I did my best, and also a few paragraphs about the time I AB’d the new Cornwall IVs and the Forte IVs (Forte base more punchy/impactful, Cornwall more open/about the musical note). At least for me, after a few times of writing novellas, it’s like, ‘Hit the search button man!’ (Obviously my opinion on a topic isn’t super important, but sometimes, especially on the Cornwall IVs it seems, there’s a bunch of similar threads with 25 well thought-out posts and then, sure enough, the same thread gets started 6 weeks later).

[billybob]

Agree, sometimes I write long.

Almost like asking about the history of the world.

A bit shorter now. No novels from me.

Now am trying vague and short.

And referring to search options for quite some time now.

The End...

[Idontknow]

You’d have to like them since you must have spent 7k on them. I’m sure those IV’s will be quite nice regardless.

[salbake]

18 hours ago, Idontknow said:

You’d have to like them since you must have spent 7k on them. I’m sure those IV’s will be quite nice regardless.

Try 29% less. July 2020. And no, they’re not B stock.

[Shakeydeal]

I paid 4500.00 for a new pair in August of 2020. Shipping included.

 

 

[OO1]

1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

I paid 4500.00 for a new pair in August of 2020. Shipping included.

and I remember you sold them when you got the LS II   in Mint Condition

[Shakeydeal]

Yep, and got all but 300.00 of my $$ back. Not bad for rental on speakers for a year.

 

 

[Klipschtastic]

That's more like it.  I paid $4995 shipped for A stock.  I'm not trying to unfairly pick on some older speakers that cost a less.  I'll be keeping my KLFs as well.  I'm just pleasantly surprised with the Cornwalls.  They exceeded my expectations.  I was prepared to do what Shakeydeal did, keep them to audition for as long as I want to and sell them if I choose to.  

[Shakeydeal]

They are great speakers. If the LS II hadn't come along, I'd still have 'em.

[Buddy Shagmore]

I had Forte 1's for many years. However when I bought them new in 1988, it was from some outfit in NYC, and they shipped me a mixed pair; not consecutive serial #s. Plus the grill covers were slightly different. One was black, the other a green/brown. I didn't even catch it for many months. as my apt was rather dark. I was just thrilled with the sound.  A few years ago, I scored a mint pair of Chorus II's. I sold my Fortes to my good buddy (he loves them for sure). I did play them side by side before he picked them up. The Forte's went deeper (32hz), but the Chorus's have a wider, fuller overall sound. I am happy with them, but there are times when I miss the Forte's. There are several tracks by Jeff Beck (Declan and Suspension) that really gave me goose bumps thru the Forte's, when turned way up, that just isn't happening with the Chorus'. The floors of my house (wood floor over a raised foundation) would become extensions of the lowest notes, and it sounded and FELT so good, that it would take me briefly to a higher emotional plane, sending shivers thru my body... hard to explain, lol. Rather like a spiritual high. I somehow was thinking the Chorus II's would be able to duplicate that experience for me, since they are bigger, but sadly, it is not so. Has to do with my room too. The Forte's now at my buddy's crib are not able to duplicate the same experience for me, due to his room. It seemed odd to me that Klipsch came out with the later versions of the Forte, that did not dig as deep, and they knew it. The 12" rear passive was the secret sauce. They should've kept with the original design, with the 12" passive, and just upgraded the squawker and tweeter. Maybe the Forte V will go back to that?

[KT88]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:46 PM, salbake said:

Here is my upstairs stereo and my downstairs stereo and I’d just like to say, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV, IV….IV.

Your TV screen looks very well integrated.

[Idontknow]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:16 PM, Buddy Shagmore said:

I had Forte 1's for many years. However when I bought them new in 1988, it was from some outfit in NYC, and they shipped me a mixed pair; not consecutive serial #s. Plus the grill covers were slightly different. One was black, the other a green/brown. I didn't even catch it for many months. as my apt was rather dark. I was just thrilled with the sound.  A few years ago, I scored a mint pair of Chorus II's. I sold my Fortes to my good buddy (he loves them for sure). I did play them side by side before he picked them up. The Forte's went deeper (32hz), but the Chorus's have a wider, fuller overall sound. I am happy with them, but there are times when I miss the Forte's. There are several tracks by Jeff Beck (Declan and Suspension) that really gave me goose bumps thru the Forte's, when turned way up, that just isn't happening with the Chorus'. The floors of my house (wood floor over a raised foundation) would become extensions of the lowest notes, and it sounded and FELT so good, that it would take me briefly to a higher emotional plane, sending shivers thru my body... hard to explain, lol. Rather like a spiritual high. I somehow was thinking the Chorus II's would be able to duplicate that experience for me, since they are bigger, but sadly, it is not so. Has to do with my room too. The Forte's now at my buddy's crib are not able to duplicate the same experience for me, due to his room. It seemed odd to me that Klipsch came out with the later versions of the Forte, that did not dig as deep, and they knew it. The 12" rear passive was the secret sauce. They should've kept with the original design, with the 12" passive, and just upgraded the squawker and tweeter. Maybe the Forte V will go back to that?

 

I understand that emotional connection you get with a particular set of speakers or component. I have that same regard fo my Heresy II’s. I wanted to get the IV which are really a great speaker. If I didn't have my Rel T5i then I definitely would have considered the IV but I honestly prefer the highs, mids and greater efficiency of the II over the IV plus they don’t have box resonance like the newer Heresy IV does. I love my Heresy II’s so much that I wanted the Original Forte because it looks exactly like the Heresy II horns but with the added bass. I know they also sound different but still. When I heard the Forte III, I didn’t like them at all. They sounded very harsh to my ears. I’m really looking forward to the original Forte. I’ve heard them before and loved them!

 

Some of the new stuff is wonderful, but I don’t subscribe to the belief that newer is always better in fact when I heard a newer version of the Rel T5i was coming out I rushed to get the original version as soon as I could because companies far often try to find cheaper ways of making things. I know this for a fact because I use to work in a corporate environment. The meetings were always focused on how to get things done more cheaply.  Look at Boeing for example. Also, If you look inside some of the original klipsch speakers they were built like tanks with so much mechanical integrity with nicer wood. I realize the pressed wood with veneer today is more solid with less resonance but it’s cheaper to manufacture! yet klipsch charges more for cheaper wood! The woofer baskets and mechanical integrity were more solid in the past as well, the magnets behind the tweeters and mid ranges were also much nicer and robust. Today, more plastics and cheaper materials are used. Today there’s much more focus on looks which is nice but like one review said, why doesn’t klipsch brag more about their internal crossovers more with the newer Forte? They don’t say anything about it. 

[aperfectcircle]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:37 PM, CoryGillmore said:

I own CWIV and have never heard Forte IV, but I feel like most people who have heard both usually say the FIV seems to have deeper or more impactful bass? I dunno but I do know CWIV has amazing bass. I was using a pair of subs for a while but not much anymore. CWIV and a decent integrated is all one needs for two-channel music bliss. 

Late to the party, but agree on the CW bass.  I have a Rythmik F12G sub that I usually only use for TV/movies, and don’t often bother to swap over to the tube amp when I’m having a music session.  I often find myself thinking the sub is connected when it’s not, though it does dig deeper when it is on (I have the sub tuned for very tight integration with the CW).  But it’s a testament to the CW how deep they dig.

 

I haven’t heard the Forte IV, but upgraded to the CW IV from Forte III.  Assuming the bass performance is similar between the III and IV, the Cornwall dig deeper but are much cleaner/tighter than the Forte.  My initial impressions were that the Forte dig deeper, but after listening more and letting the CW settle in, I felt there was some illusion with the Forte bass digging deeper due to being less tight/thicker than the CW.  
 

Both speakers had plenty of breathing space, so the rear passive on the Forte wasn’t too loaded - pushing it closer to the rear wall does deliver a different experience, and is one of the benefits of the Forte.  But even if that does allow it to dig deeper, from my experience with the III, it was at the expense of tightness so led to a bit more flub.

 

For OP, haven’t heard KLFs - only the CW IV, Forte III and RF-82 II in home, and RF-7 III and RP-6000F in demo/at friends.  I can’t imagine that the Cornwall IV wouldn’t be a significant upgrade on your KLF.  They truly are incredible and will be coming with me to Vietnam should I end up relocating their from NZ later this year! 

[aperfectcircle]

On 4/5/2022 at 2:59 AM, Klipschtastic said:

Thanks for everyone's input!  I bought the Cornwall's from Paducah home theater.  They arrived last Thursday.  After listening to them for a good 20 hours by now I am very impressed!  They beat the the KLF 20's by a good margin in about every facet except for bass impact.  The CWIVs have a much richer, more open and fuller midrange.  Guitars, vocals and drum all have more of a sense of air and space around them as if you are an observer in the venue where the recording is taking place. It is as if the midrange is three dimensional now. I always fought with the midrange on the KLFs, eventually installing an Lpad to tame them a bit.  The KLFs are wonderful with the right recordings but are more revealing of poor recordings than the Cornwalls.  In fact one of the worst recordings I have ever heard on the KLFs, Sinead O'conner's 'Drink Before the War' sounds markedly better on the Cornwalls.  I was really surprised to find myself actually enjoying it for the first time. The whole speaker sounds more integrated as one cohesive sound if that makes sense.  The CWIV are fantastic!  I am quite happy with them.  The KLFs are still a bargain on the used market even at $1500 for a nice pair but if you can afford it I recommend the CWIV.

The KLFs will be moved down to the home theater and the RF3s will be sold.

I should have read to the end of the thread before replying to an earlier comment

 

Stoked to see you bit the bullet and got the Cornwall.  They really are a magical speaker.  
 

If you’re an Apple Music user, let me know and I’ll PM you a link to my every growing playlist of stuff that sounds great on the CW if you’re interested.

[jjptkd]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:16 PM, Buddy Shagmore said:

 It seemed odd to me that Klipsch came out with the later versions of the Forte, that did not dig as deep, and they knew it. The 12" rear passive was the secret sauce. They should've kept with the original design, with the 12" passive, and just upgraded the squawker and tweeter. Maybe the Forte V will go back to that?

 

If you're comparing the low end response of the newer forte's (III & IV) to the older versions it wasn't the passive that changed the tuning it was the new woofer. Klipsch had a lot of problems with the original forte woofer (k-23) they would burn up and they'd get a lot of returns, they tried to fix that in the forte II with a vented voice-coil (k-25) but still had issues. The new woofer is more rugged but not as well suited for the low frequencies.