Deang Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Loudspeakers with horns will always sound better because of their lower distortion. BTW, I offered this up as "a myth". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 52 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: We've had this conversation before, where I pointed out that DBT was once used to show that there were no audible differences between a Pioneer receiver and $14K Mark Levinson monoblocks. I was using Dahlquist DQ10's and a Dynaco 400 back then, and anyone in that camp thought the results were just silly. What?! Are you saying that DBT doesn't work b/c it failed to reveal audible differences b/w a cheap pioneer receiver and a $14k ML amp?? ..I'll stick with the more scientific conclusion, which is: ...They didn't sound sufficiently different for people to consistently distinguish one from the other. Sheesh You can't discredit DB testing just because it failed to produce the result you wanted. And I never said there were no performance differences b/w amplifiers. But differences that can be measured (for ex., 05% vs .025% THD) are not necessarily differences that can be heard. DBT is useful b/c it can help sort out REAL audible differences from IMAGINED differences. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 The test that says everything sounds the same isn’t of much use to me. My offer still stands - I will trade you my Cambridge for your overpriced space heater. Don’t worry, it has tone controls. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Don’t worry, it has tone controls. Right.. but does it have a Mono switch?? ..Sadly, mono switches, which used to be on nearly every pre-amp, integrated amp, and receiver, have all but disappeared. Only Luxman, Accuphase, McIntosh and Anthem offer integrated amplifiers w/ mono switches. Which brings to mind another myth. Mono switches, even when not engaged, have a negative audible impact on the signal b/c they introduce additional signal breaks. ...This is pure nonsense. or should I say MYTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Carter Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 I miss those Mono switches. They were handy when trying to tune in an FM station with a weak signal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, ODS123 said: Right.. but does it have a Mono switch?? I can see where that would be a deal breaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Crankysoldermeister said: I can see where that would be a deal breaker. Comes in handy more often that you'd think. ..Many of the songs back in the very early days of stereo had really bad stereo imaging. ..Like some early Beatles songs where all the voices come from one channel, and the instruments from the other. I'd much rather hear those songs in mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, ODS123 said: Comes in handy more often that you'd think. ..Many of the songs back in the very early days of stereo had really bad stereo imaging. ..Like some early Beatles songs where all the voices come from one channel, and the instruments from the other. I'd much rather hear those songs in mono. You'll find that many of those early stereo recordings don't mix down to mono well at all, because some of the stereo content was out-of-phase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, Edgar said: You'll find that many of those early stereo recordings don't mix down to mono well at all, because some of the stereo content was out-of-phase. What I know is that is that the resulting mono - imperfect though it may be - is still preferable to the goofy stereo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 20 minutes ago, ODS123 said: What I know is that is that the resulting mono - imperfect though it may be - is still preferable to the goofy stereo I can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Iteachstem said: I don't know if it's a myth or not, but consuming this beverage while listening always helps my speakers/music sound better 100% of the time! (And it's a lot cheaper than interconnects that cost a mortgage payment, wooden pucks that keep your "perfectly insulated cables" off the floor, gimmicky tube connectors, etc) Plus, the more I consume, the better I can sing and dance.... coincidence? That magic elixir will do it everytime. Also, don't drink & post, usually nothing good comes of it because you are uninhibited... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/78mddb/study-says-no-one-can-really-tell-the-difference-between-rye-and-bourbon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/78mddb/study-says-no-one-can-really-tell-the-difference-between-rye-and-bourbon Wouldn’t surprise me. Wasn’t there an article years ago about world-class violinists not really being able to reliably hear a difference between a Stradivarius and cheap knockoff? connoisseurship is a fascinating phenomena. What is the rarest phrase you’ll ever hear spoken by an audiophile? Answer: “I don’t hear any difference’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 If you cannot taste the difference between rye and bourbon stop drinking expensive whiskey. Cheap vodka is for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWelsh Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Crankysoldermeister said: https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/78mddb/study-says-no-one-can-really-tell-the-difference-between-rye-and-bourbon Once again, I will offer my lab and myself to test this assertion. I promise to keep testing until I am double blind! 🥳 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted May 23, 2022 Klipsch Employees Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Nm Good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlophone1 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 13 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said: BTW, I offered this up as "a myth". Not sure if small Klipsch speakers (RF, RP...) count as horn speakers, although the do have one (HF) horn. Those frequently receive worse reviews than simple 2-way bookshelves. Not going into the differences of rooms they played in, the electronics associated and so on, direct radiating bookshelves in most instances played more naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 22 hours ago, ODS123 said: Right.. but does it have a Mono switch?? ..Sadly, mono switches, which used to be on nearly every pre-amp, integrated amp, and receiver, have all but disappeared. Only Luxman, Accuphase, McIntosh and Anthem offer integrated amplifiers w/ mono switches. Which brings to mind another myth. Mono switches, even when not engaged, have a negative audible impact on the signal b/c they introduce additional signal breaks. ...This is pure nonsense. or should I say MYTH! Yes, a mono switch is handy, and I have to laugh when I hear the first stereo Beatles recordings, which were better in mono. Also, on the issue of woofer break-in, which it thing it's a 98% myth because I've not measured anything that drifted from specifications more than a few percent and is mostly BS as a result. Quote from Bill Fitzmaurice, designer of the Tuba HT folded horn Sub woofers: "It can be measured. Fs, Qms and Vas will change, due to the softening of the suspension via flexing. It changes the most with woofers, since they have the most excursion, the least with tweeters as they have very little excursion." To this I would add that it does NOT take 50 hours for things to "loosen up a bit" either. One day should do it, and it's still not that AUDIBLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: on the issue of woofer break-in, ... I've not measured anything that drifted from specifications more than a few percent A few percent improvement in performance is usually classified as success in most technical and athletic aspects of our lives, and the reason many people establish goals and try harder to achieve them. A few percent increase in taxes would be considered a significant burden to most taxpayers. So, if a new loudspeaker might sound 2% better after xx hours of use, what is so difficult with accepting that as a distinct probability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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