JohnA Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 10:11 PM, the real Duke Spinner said: Can any modern speaker really best this ?? Do not offer conjecture if you have never heard them Acoustics have not changed since this Pinnacle of design Modern speakers just have different design constraints I'd say almost all. I would not choose them over my old La Scalas, never mind K-horns of Jubilees. I have found them boomy with recessed vocals and pretty hot somewhere around 4k. Certainly no more low bass output than a La Scala. Mr. Paul compared the frequency response of the La Scala to a "well known theater speaker" in a paper published on the "new" La Scala. I have always suspected it was the A7 and it falls well short. I used the A7's horn and driver in a home-made system similar to my La Scalas. That treble horn/driver has some nice attributes and it's smooth sounding, but lacks the shimmer the K-77-M gives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 They were used a lot for playback in early studios. The thing is, once you know a sound signature, you could mix on almost anything and know the vinyl (at the time) would sound right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Khorns Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I have a hybrid A5/A7 system whose bass cabinets have been modified years ago per a paper by theater consultant Jim Dickenson. I also mounted the 500b and 805b horns in a custom-made rack placing them at ear level. They are tri-amped (with ATI), and DSP controlled with Ashly ne24.24M. These are installed in a system that also includes Khorns in proper corners, and a custom made JBL system designed by a JBL engineer (Drew Daniels) and built by me. This includes 8 -18-inch subwoofers in proper cabinets. The entire system is DSP controlled with each speaker motor powered by its own amplifier channel (total of 32). While this system is setup to play all together (system response tuned via miniDSP UM1K-1 to my tastes), I am able to do A/B/C comparisons of the KHorn, Altec and JBL systems over a wide variety of music. Granted these are not stock systems (the Khorns being the closest), I find that each sound somewhat different, one slightly better than the others depending on music, but each are wonderful in their own right. If I were forced to choose only one of these systems on the basis of pleasing sound quality on a variety of music, it would be an exceptionally difficult choice. But I would pick the Altec setup on pleasing sound quality alone. The all-around best choice (sound, size, looks etc.) would be the Khorns, but the JBL's are not far behind. However, all three playing together are magical, there is nothing I would trade this system for any two new speakers (even say the JBL Everest DD67000 and probably not the heritage Jubilees, although I have not heard the Jubes). I emphatically do not agree with others in this thread about deficiencies in the A7, and especially the comment that most modern speakers sound better. Modern speakers just cannot compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 As a teen my first commercially made loud speaker was a pair of Altec A7 with 811B horns. Check out horn loudspeakers by JBL the Master Reference Seven Series and Danley Sound Lab in North America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 10:11 PM, the real Duke Spinner said: Can any modern speaker really best this ?? Do not offer conjecture if you have never heard them Acoustics have not changed since this Pinnacle of design Modern speakers just have different design constraints Yep, in an old local theater that uses a pair. Sound like shit compared to modern Imax or THX approved, or Klipsch for smaller theaters. No contest. Bass and extreme treble is anemic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 11 hours ago, Quad Khorns said: I have a hybrid A5/A7 system whose bass cabinets have been modified years ago per a paper by theater consultant Jim Dickenson. I also mounted the 500b and 805b horns in a custom-made rack placing them at ear level. They are tri-amped (with ATI), and DSP controlled with Ashly ne24.24M. These are installed in a system that also includes Khorns in proper corners, and a custom made JBL system designed by a JBL engineer (Drew Daniels) and built by me. This includes 8 -18-inch subwoofers in proper cabinets. The entire system is DSP controlled with each speaker motor powered by its own amplifier channel (total of 32). While this system is setup to play all together (system response tuned via miniDSP UM1K-1 to my tastes), I am able to do A/B/C comparisons of the KHorn, Altec and JBL systems over a wide variety of music. Granted these are not stock systems (the Khorns being the closest), I find that each sound somewhat different, one slightly better than the others depending on music, but each are wonderful in their own right. If I were forced to choose only one of these systems on the basis of pleasing sound quality on a variety of music, it would be an exceptionally difficult choice. But I would pick the Altec setup on pleasing sound quality alone. The all-around best choice (sound, size, looks etc.) would be the Khorns, but the JBL's are not far behind. However, all three playing together are magical, there is nothing I would trade this system for any two new speakers (even say the JBL Everest DD67000 and probably not the heritage Jubilees, although I have not heard the Jubes). I emphatically do not agree with others in this thread about deficiencies in the A7, and especially the comment that most modern speakers sound better. Modern speakers just cannot compare. I was speaking of just a pair of A7's with passives. With your setup with added subs and PEQ's they are no longer Vanilla A7's. So yeah, in that case they would be great. Good midbass horn and midrange horn mega tweaked is not the same thing I heard. My first pair of serious speakers I built at 20 contained $1,000 (6,500 in today's dollars) worth of Altec drivers. 500B, 808-8a, 428H in big vented cab, and EV super tweeters. No short horn, tho, like the A7, but they sounded great flat to 38 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Khorns Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 11 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: I was speaking of just a pair of A7's with passives. With your setup with added subs and PEQ's they are no longer Vanilla A7's. So yeah, in that case they would be great. Good midbass horn and midrange horn mega tweaked is not the same thing I heard. My first pair of serious speakers I built at 20 contained $1,000 worth of Altec drivers. 500B, 808-8a, 428H in big vented cab, and EV super tweeters. No short horn, tho, like the A7, but they sounded great flat to 38 Hz. I agree with your observations about the stock/vanilla A7 playing alone. I am mainly taking issue with other's statements that most modern speakers sound better than A7's. The same deficiencies of A7's can be said about many, many modern speakers when considering their low/high frequency response (including Khorns). Most single pair speakers cannot hope to get close to the same uniform dispersion, especially prominent in larger rooms. The best sounding music I've ever heard was in lively small jazz clubs, and my lifelong goal was to try and duplicate that at home. I have not found any speaker that can come close to that goal as horn loaded speakers. Certainly, no cone only speaker can. Someone mentioned THX certified theaters as superior - you can't compare those to old Altec A7 theaters! Count how many dispersed cone speakers are used in a THX certified theater (many many), and also check out the subwoofers used. A7's were used in small to mid-sized (and sometimes unfortunately large) theaters and typically only 2 or 3 were used behind the screen - and no subwoofers. An apple and orange comparison of the two eras and practices used. I submit that a theater using more A7's, and also subwoofers, would be the equal of, or sound superior, IMO. I have another set of Khorns in a room with no low or high frequency reinforcement and those deficiencies exist, but so do many hi end modern speakers. I think most Khorn owners on this forum would agree that very few two speakers can fill a properly sized room with widely dispersed high quality sound like a pair of properly located Khorns. I can listen to those all day on jazz music with no hi/low reinforcement, compared to other speakers in the same situation. I have to correct and clarify my writings about the A7's - my mids are handled by an 805b horn coupled to a 288-8K Altec, while the highs are from a 511b (not 500b) horn coupled to a 902-8a Altec. I arrived at these due to measurements and to obtain a smooth frequency response with little equalization. These are mounted in a frame at ear level. The mods to the bass cabinet (with 515-8G driver) were massive stiffing and damping of the enclosure and flares, internal fiber glass lining, and low frequency tuning by adjustment of the port size. No, it's not a subwoofer but very few modern speakers (without subs) can go below 35Hz smoothly and without massive equalization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Quad Khorns said: I agree with your observations about the stock/vanilla A7 playing alone. I submit that a theater using more A7's, and also subwoofers, would be the equal of, or sound superior, IMO. I have another set of Khorns in a room with no low or high frequency reinforcement and those deficiencies exist, but so do many hi end modern speakers. I think most Khorn owners on this forum would agree that very few two speakers can fill a properly sized room with widely dispersed high quality sound like a pair of properly located Khorns. I can listen to those all day on jazz music with no hi/low reinforcement, compared to other speakers in the same situation. I have to correct and clarify my writings about the A7's - my mids are handled by an 805b horn coupled to a 288-8K Altec, while the highs are from a 511b (not 500b TYPO on my part CJ1) horn coupled to a 902-8a Altec. I arrived at these due to measurements and to obtain a smooth frequency response with little equalization. These are mounted in a frame at ear level. The mods to the bass cabinet (with 515-8G driver) were massive stiffing and damping of the enclosure and flares, internal fiber glass lining, and low frequency tuning by adjustment of the port size. No, it's not a subwoofer but very few modern speakers (without subs) can go below 35Hz smoothly and without massive equalization. Agreed with all your good points. Other than a Hyperion or Jubilee, all speakers need subwoofers. Even the latest Wilson Audio XvX at 1/3 of Million Bux per pair!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I see no problem discussing an out of date discontinued old horn speaker. Made around the time of the K-horn. Those big horns made back then sound great then and will sound great now. We Klipsch owners will still consider the K-horn the best of the best for home use. That A-7 was more of a pro speaker for auditorium use. I sat too close to one of them at a concert and my ears rang for a few days after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 It is amazing to me how someone's posts/comments sometimes "just disappear." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 For the record, Wendy Carlos (Switched on Bach and lots more over the years) used 4 Cornwalls as monitors, suspended fron the ceiling in her studio. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 On 9/4/2022 at 4:01 PM, JohnA said: Mr. Paul compared the frequency response of the La Scala to a "well known theater speaker" in a paper published on the "new" La Scala. I have always suspected it was the A7 and it falls well short. I always heard that the A7 was PWK's goal performance wise in a small form factor. Mission accomplished. I've spent time with the A7 and some of the bigger ones and they are fun I like them. Personally I'd take the cash 8-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 On 9/4/2022 at 10:22 PM, ClaudeJ1 said: I was speaking of just a pair of A7's with passives. With your setup with added subs and PEQ's they are no longer Vanilla A7's. So yeah, in that case they would be great. Good midbass horn and midrange horn mega tweaked is not the same thing I heard. My first pair of serious speakers I built at 20 contained $1,000 (6,500 in today's dollars) worth of Altec drivers. 500B, 808-8a, 428H in big vented cab, and EV super tweeters. No short horn, tho, like the A7, but they sounded great flat to 38 Hz. Believe that would be the 511B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 hours ago, IB Slammin said: Believe that would be the 511B Yep, memory fart duly noted. That was back in '73 when I first hear 511's with 808-8a drivers with companion Xovers on EV Eliminators. Same as what I used in my big bad bass reflex boxes (20 Cubic feet external). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 When I was a kid and asked a movie theater usher where all the sound came from, he showed me behind the screen, shining a flashlight on some Voice of the Theater speakers. I was immediately infatuated with the big horns. I did not have room for such large speakers and got by with some average boxes, but years later I crossed paths with a pair of La Scalas and was intrigued by the clever design of the folded horn woofer and just had to buy some and have been a Klipsch fan ever since. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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