What DAC & Amp are you using with Heritage Speakers

[JMeader]

DAC - MiniDSP SHD

Amp - Decware Torii Jr V2

Speakers 1987 La Scala's

 

wide and deep sound stage  good base

 

 

 

[Shakeydeal]

DAC - Denafrips Pontus II

Amp - Audio Mirror 20 watt SET monoblocks

Speakers - 2019 Lascala IIs

[Idontknow]

Denefrips Ares II

[Bananas and Blow]

DAC - Internal on the Marantz SACD 30N. 

Alternating between 4 components for the rest of them:

Amp:

Raven Audio- Osprey 3.1 

Cary Audio - SLI-80 signature

Speakers:

 

Forte IV

Heresy IV

 

The Cary is a match made in heaven and has been my daily driver for the last year with the Fortes. Just got the Raven and Heresy so running them together while I break in the Heresys. Got about 25 hours on them so far. They sound better than they did with zero hours on them but they aren't quite there yet. 

[geezin']

Schiit Modi 3+. Was playing through a Topping PA3s. Didn't care for that combination. Thin and hollow. Detailed but.....

 

Now through my '65 Fisher 440T modified with the power section from a 500T.

 

Into 1979 Heresy original configuration  with DeanG refurb'd crossovers. They changed enough w/the crossover fix I've been setting them up all over again. Well that and Shaggy (my 90 pound Shepherd) occasionally moving the right speaker when he lays down.

 

This is new territory for me. Never owned a speaker that opened up the music like my Heresy.

[henry4841]

I am using a Shiit modi as well. Good enough for me, I run with the small dogs. I was not familiar with the Fisher and did not know if SS or tube. Early SS receiver I found out. Nice

[Steve.]

I'm driving a pair of Forte IV with a Toolshed Amps 300b , my DAC is the LAB 12 DAC 1 Reference.   It's a great sounding combo.    Matt at Toolshed is building me it's companion line stage right now , also DHT using 205d tubes .

[Bubo]

I didn't want to hijack this thread, so I also posted this as it's own thread.

If any purists care, I'm sure admin will delete this post as it appears as it's own thread.

 

Have DACs hit the point where any competent design is pretty good

given that we are on the 4th or 5th gen of DAC chip sets ?

The "best sounding DAC" may be only $100 today.

Can anyone who has been comparison shopping lately tell the difference ?

 

It pains me to say it, but the SONY $35 DVD player I purchased a few years ago

sounds pretty good powering my excellent quality Yamaha MX 600 amp and matching pre amp

running through the same vintage Yamaha EQ with the nice florescent bouncing bars and good SN numbers.

My comment to myself was and is "SONY does it again".

 

I'm guessing that the SONY has a $5 Delta Sigma (guess) mass produced chip set. Does TI make these these?

 

A few years ago, on the Headfi Boards, a group did a DAC bake-off

Maybe 2 generations ago

and found that any $500 DAC sounded pretty good, $250 if it was an EMO (Emotiva). They couldn't discern any noticeable difference. These might be today's $100 DACs with most of the cost in the housing and power supply, not to mention the cardboard box which may cost more than the DAC chip set.

 

Engineering usually makes some improvements, and hundreds of little fixes with each generation. The mass production chip sets usually move in once the kinks are worked out; and, the custom ASICs fade away with the next set of designs.

 

The DAC guys in Boulder Colorado use FPGA for their DAC processors so they can modify and change the software on the fly with their next set of little fixes and improvements. Might be a little faster processing than the chip sets, how fast is fast enough.

 

Likewise, each amp represents a series of design choices and trade offs.

Science, engineering, physics and art aka audio equipment.

Sounds good on paper is different than sounds good.

 

Years ago, I read a Motorcycle Bake Off article on the Superbikes

All current (at the time) road-racing bike riders

There were all of the technical metrics criteria; acceleration, braking, max speed, quarter mile, turns etc etc etc

Japanese bikes took the top 6 or 7 slots.

Ducati (F1 ? ) took I recall #7 slot.

All riders were asked if they could take one bike home for free, which one would they choose    ?

Every rider chose the Ducati, because it was a better bike from the users point of view.

The 1,2,3 finishes at many races bore this out.

At 160 mph in a turn, you are betting your life on the bike in every turn.

 

Last fall, I took a friend shopping for a pistol, his first

He had a finite budget.

The country store salesman in his late 20s was unusually knowledgeable.

There was also the more seasoned and knowledgeable 50 something country guy.

My friend and I had settled on a name brand 2nd tier import in the $500 range.

I asked the 20 something salesman which one "he would bet his life on",

he put the import back in the case

and pulled out a slightly less expensive US made model, "this one"

 

Any version of the Heresy, is another example of this phenomenon

they sound good compared to anything for home use volumes.

Every time I turn on my 1s, I remark to myself they sound great !

 

 

[geezin']

11 hours ago, henry4841 said:

I am using a Shiit modi as well. Good enough for me, I run with the small dogs. I was not familiar with the Fisher and did not know if SS or tube. Early SS receiver I found out. Nice

When I first got the Heresy I was actually kind of disappointed. Then on a whim I decided to use the Fisher. man it woke them up! They sound so much better with the Fisher than the class D Topping. My Klipsch R-610f sound just fine with the Topping...in fact they sound pretty good. The Heresy just don't agree with the cheaper class D. I think if I bought a better class D they would sound better but I won't risk the money. Leaning towards Schiit Vidar but have not decided yet.

[Bubo]

3 minutes ago, geezin' said:

When I first got the Heresy I was actually kind of disappointed. Then on a whim I decided to use the Fisher. man it woke them up! They sound so much better with the Fisher than the class D Topping. My Klipsch R-610f sound just fine with the Topping...in fact they sound pretty good. The Heresy just don't agree with the cheaper class D. I think if I bought a better class D they would sound better but I won't risk the money. Leaning towards Schiit Vidar but have not decided yet.

The latest Mil Spec class D chip sets apparently address many of the D shortcomings

and deliver lots of watts 200-400 for not a lot of money.

on the other hand, Heresy's only need one really good Watt..........

 

The Vintage 70s and 80s quality gear was the peak of analog tech, and had the best analog designers in the world as their designers and engineers. The amps are the achievement of a lifetime for the best analog designers of their generation.

Only recently, have many of the name brand manufacturers invested in new designs with the best designers using current available production components.

[henry4841]

9 minutes ago, geezin' said:

When I first got the Heresy I was actually kind of disappointed. Then on a whim I decided to use the Fisher. man it woke them up! They sound so much better with the Fisher than the class D Topping. My Klipsch R-610f sound just fine with the Topping...in fact they sound pretty good. The Heresy just don't agree with the cheaper class D. I think if I bought a better class D they would sound better but I won't risk the money. Leaning towards Schiit Vidar but have not decided yet.

Those early class D amps sound kinda thin to me, missing something. The newer ones sound fine. Try a cheap Chinese TPA3255 amp board with a Meanwell switching PS and you will hear what a better class D board sounds like for not a lot of bread. Around $200. I like the concept Schiit uses, quality products reasonable priced. 

[roninklipsch]

Michi X5 with on board 32-bit/768kHz AKM AK4495SEQ.

 

For amps I have tried a few tube amps as I heard tubes and Heritage are a great match.  None of the tube amps (Ayon, Lab 12 or Primaluna ) did very well against the Michi. All sounded good but lacked somewhere.

 

As mentioned above, DACs have come a long way.  I found two dacs that were a step up in some ways to the AKM in the Michi but one was a TT2 with Mscaler (8k) and the other was a older dcs (Debussy).  So I'm just fine with the Michi at this point.  However what I have not tried is a ladder or tube DAC. That might be fun.

[Shakeydeal]

3 hours ago, Bubo said:

I didn't want to hijack this thread, so I also posted this as it's own thread.

If any purists care, I'm sure admin will delete this post as it appears as it's own thread.

 

Have DACs hit the point where any competent design is pretty good

given that we are on the 4th or 5th gen of DAC chip sets ?

The "best sounding DAC" may be only $100 today.

Can anyone who has been comparison shopping lately tell the difference ?

 

It pains me to say it, but the SONY $35 DVD player I purchased a few years ago

sounds pretty good powering my excellent quality Yamaha MX 600 amp and matching pre amp

running through the same vintage Yamaha EQ with the nice florescent bouncing bars and good SN numbers.

My comment to myself was and is "SONY does it again".

 

I'm guessing that the SONY has a $5 Delta Sigma (guess) mass produced chip set. Does TI make these these?

 

A few years ago, on the Headfi Boards, a group did a DAC bake-off

Maybe 2 generations ago

and found that any $500 DAC sounded pretty good, $250 if it was an EMO (Emotiva). They couldn't discern any noticeable difference. These might be today's $100 DACs with most of the cost in the housing and power supply, not to mention the cardboard box which may cost more than the DAC chip set.

 

Engineering usually makes some improvements, and hundreds of little fixes with each generation. The mass production chip sets usually move in once the kinks are worked out; and, the custom ASICs fade away with the next set of designs.

 

The DAC guys in Boulder Colorado use FPGA for their DAC processors so they can modify and change the software on the fly with their next set of little fixes and improvements. Might be a little faster processing than the chip sets, how fast is fast enough.

 

Likewise, each amp represents a series of design choices and trade offs.

Science, engineering, physics and art aka audio equipment.

Sounds good on paper is different than sounds good.

 

Years ago, I read a Motorcycle Bake Off article on the Superbikes

All current (at the time) road-racing bike riders

There were all of the technical metrics criteria; acceleration, braking, max speed, quarter mile, turns etc etc etc

Japanese bikes took the top 6 or 7 slots.

Ducati (F1 ? ) took I recall #7 slot.

All riders were asked if they could take one bike home for free, which one would they choose    ?

Every rider chose the Ducati, because it was a better bike from the users point of view.

The 1,2,3 finishes at many races bore this out.

At 160 mph in a turn, you are betting your life on the bike in every turn.

 

Last fall, I took a friend shopping for a pistol, his first

He had a finite budget.

The country store salesman in his late 20s was unusually knowledgeable.

There was also the more seasoned and knowledgeable 50 something country guy.

My friend and I had settled on a name brand 2nd tier import in the $500 range.

I asked the 20 something salesman which one "he would bet his life on",

he put the import back in the case

and pulled out a slightly less expensive US made model, "this one"

 

Any version of the Heresy, is another example of this phenomenon

they sound good compared to anything for home use volumes.

Every time I turn on my 1s, I remark to myself they sound great !

 

 

 

The differences between some is subtle, others not so subtle at all. I guess it depends on how resolving your system is and how particular you are with getting that last percentage of performance. You might put two dacs in your line stage and switch back and forth over and over and only hear a slight difference. But when you sit down for longer term relaxed listening sessions, the real story unfolds.

 

That was the long answer, the short one is "it depends". If 100.00 DAC gets you to musical bliss, consider yourself lucky and go buy a few 200.00 bottles of bourbon. That's my highly scientific advice.

[Bananas and Blow]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:18 PM, geezin' said:

Schiit Modi 3+. Was playing through a Topping PA3s. Didn't care for that combination. Thin and hollow. Detailed but.....

 

Now through my '65 Fisher 440T modified with the power section from a 500T.

 

Into 1979 Heresy original configuration  with DeanG refurb'd crossovers. They changed enough w/the crossover fix I've been setting them up all over again. Well that and Shaggy (my 90 pound Shepherd) occasionally moving the right speaker when he lays down.

 

This is new territory for me. Never owned a speaker that opened up the music like my Heresy.

 

Those old Fisher tube amps sound wonderful and pair great with vintage Klipsch. Not surprised it sounds so good.  

[geezin']

It's a solid state receiver. One of their earlier efforts. Regardless still sounds pretty good.

[henry4841]

20 minutes ago, geezin' said:

It's a solid state receiver. One of their earlier efforts. Regardless still sounds pretty good.

It's a classic as are all old Fisher amps. I like the looks and sound of the early 70's Fisher receivers a lot. Look good, sound good and can still be bought at reasonable prices. 

[JMeader]

Looking at all the responses, our Heritage speakers seem to be very flexible in reproducing  enjoyable sounding music. Which kind of explains why I enjoyed my system when it was driven by a Crown 1500 XLI versus now being driven by a Decware Torii Jr V2 amp. I think this probably also applies to or very different Dac choices. Personally, I prefer new designs and Dacs over "Vintage equipment".

 

Probably system integration and our listening rooms play a big part in our final choices. My La Scala's are my finale speaker choice, my Decware amp is looking like a final amp choice. Now what is in option is my Dac.  I primarily listen to my own Flac music files ( 16/44.1 ) and to a lessor amount internet streaming music.

 

Within these two areas there many options to look at and consider.  I created 16/44.1 Flac files ( basic CD  level ) as I want my money spent on a Dac to be utilized for up-scalling for better sound. 

 

Finding a pure Dac  ( no other function ) to connect with a streamer is very limited , most options are those two functions combined.

 

Oh well all part of the journey.

 

Enjoying The Music

[salbake]

amp/internal DAC -  McIntosh MAC7200 Receiver

speakers - Cornwall IV

[salbake]

Also, Klipsch HP3 with Dragonfly Cobalt DAC if the Heritage headphones count

[Shakeydeal]

@JMeader

 

There are many companies making high quality stand alone dacs

 

Denafrips

MHDT

Lampizator

Schiit

Gustard

Audio Mirror

Holo Audio

Chord

Bricasti

Benchmark

Musician

Doge

Surely something from one of these companies would suit you.