geezin' Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 My source isn't clean enough to bother with big dollar cables. It's a budget thang. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 The human brain is an amazing thing. If you spend enough money on something that's supposed to make something sound better, it will. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 9 minutes ago, wuzzzer said: The human brain is an amazing thing. If you spend enough money on something that's supposed to make something sound better, it will. Nevertheless, I have the impression that you don't differentiate in a way that someone could. I think spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on speaker cables is a lot of nonsense. But if I can buy a cable for 6 dollars per meter that can keep up with the most expensive cables, why should I prefer a dollar for a meter of lamp strips? that's a difference of 40 dollars for 2x4 meters, for example. So not more than one fill-up. In my experience, it's really worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 2/13/2024 at 7:57 AM, Flevoman said: My problem is that I have no idea if increasing from 3m length to 8m length will result in audible quality loss. the answer is so simple ....Differences in length between the cables used in a system are practically irrelevant. At 3 m ≠ 8 m this is certainly the case, but at 2 m ≠ 50 m this statement may no longer be true. Use a 2,5 mm2 ( AWG 14 ) per phase and you´ll be fine ! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 13 minutes ago, KT88 said: Nevertheless, I have the impression that you don't differentiate in a way that someone could. I think spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on speaker cables is a lot of nonsense. But if I can buy a cable for 6 dollars per meter that can keep up with the most expensive cables, why should I prefer a dollar for a meter of lamp strips? that's a difference of 40 dollars for 2x4 meters, for example. So not more than one fill-up. In my experience, it's really worth it. I agree with you there. I'm talking about the hundreds/thousands of dollar 'magic' cables. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) Don't know if anything was directed towards me or my view... but it was similar statements years ago that made me put a note at my page here. It's just the idea that those of us that dare to differ with the zip-cord crowd are wrong, or dumb or can't hear. For any or all of us that dare to think that way I'll pipe some hot air in : I'll quote from that page: "Don't tell me my cabling is snake oil unless you've made direct comparisons yourself and couldn't discern the difference." And if you can't?.... "Why you need Klipsch Willis?" I compared and there is a difference. That's why I invested some $ in them. How can I love the Klipsch Heritage sound and not think 18g zip cord is just fine? I compared with my speakers as far apart as the room(s) allowed, they're always like that. It's amazing to me how some can mock or be prejudiced against someone or their viewpoints. Without even bothering to open their mind a little and looking at a differing possibility. from Merrium-Webster.com: Ignorant shares a root with the word ignore, one of those etymological connections which appear obvious once they are pointed out, yet remained overlooked by most. Both words come from the Latin ignorare (“to ignore, be ignorant of”). There are several meanings of ignorant, all of which are concerned with a lack of knowledge in some sense; some of these are more insulting than others, and care should be exercised before applying this word to people who you do not wish to offend. rant over. ** Think I'll put those 10g on my subs Edited February 14 by JohnJ ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 It STANDS TO REASON that if a poor wire/cable can make something sound worse, that a good/decent/reliable cable can make something sound better... both things MUST BE a truism in order for one of them to be the truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 @Schu And if a cable adds nothing while also taking away nothing? You hear what the source and the amplification can or can not do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, KT88 said: Nevertheless, I have the impression that you don't differentiate in a way that someone could. I think spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on speaker cables is a lot of nonsense. But if I can buy a cable for 6 dollars per meter that can keep up with the most expensive cables, why should I prefer a dollar for a meter of lamp strips? that's a difference of 40 dollars for 2x4 meters, for example. So not more than one fill-up. In my experience, it's really worth it. this is... ONCE AGAIN... an issue of Economics and not one of scientific relevance. If anyone wants to spend 500$ on a machined billet aluminum bracket when a 10$ stamped steel bracket can do the same work, why should we not be allowed to use Billet aluminum? Common mass mentality is that you've wasted 490$ when if fact you merely made a decision based on economics. if you want beautiful stranded and woven cables, by all means use them. in as far as 'expectation' bias... I have a different view point. if I am choosing to use something that costs me inordinately more to use, my 'Bias' is not one of justification, but one of criticality... In other words, I am actually going to be MORE CRITICAL of that item, not less critical. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 35 minutes ago, Schu said: this is... ONCE AGAIN... an issue of Economics and not one of scientific relevance. If anyone wants to spend 500$ on a machined billet aluminum bracket when a 10$ stamped steel bracket can do the same work, why should we not be allowed to use Billet aluminum? Common mass mentality is that you've wasted 490$ when if fact you merely made a decision based on economics. if you want beautiful stranded and woven cables, by all means use them. in as far as 'expectation' bias... I have a different view point. if I am choosing to use something that costs me inordinately more to use, my 'Bias' is not one of justification, but one of criticality... In other words, I am actually going to be MORE CRITICAL of that item, not less critical. I don't want to recommend or suggest anything to anyone. What was the starting point for my first post: The thread opener has been using quite expensive cables that he liked. He needs more of them due to changes in the stereo setup. So for this specific case he asked and I thought about it, what is just as good but not as expensive? I thought I could give input because I recently had a very good experience with a much cheaper cable than the price of my old Kimber 8TC cables by chance. So my post was just referring to this specific case where someone wants to save money but still get a comparable solution. Apart from this individual case, everyone can do what they want. There are so many types of hi-fi enthusiasts, so many budgets and so many preferences. Everything has its justification and everyone should have fun with what they consider to be beautiful and important. When the discussion of the answer posts started, I wanted to point out to the supporters of the camp of inexpensive cables that there are cables for marginally more money that could be significantly better. If someone from the exclusive cable camp wants to enjoy their expensive cable, they are welcome to do so. I hope that the forum members have understood me in this way. Everyone has weaknesses for expensive and perhaps not always rationally explainable products. That's all very well. For example, I enjoy a Les Paul Beano Eric Clapton. Rationally speaking, a normal Les Paul would be perfectly adequate for my playing style. Very probably a Korean Les Paul copy would be sufficient for my playing skills. So what's the point. I respect people who are economical just as much as I respect people who enjoy special things, even if they are speaker cables. There is no reason to polarize this discussion from my point of view. I totally agree with you that anyone who likes it should buy natural wool braided cables. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 sorry double post, the Klipsch site was not accessible after I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, Schu said: this is... ONCE AGAIN... an issue of Economics and not one of scientific relevance. If anyone wants to spend 500$ on a machined billet aluminum bracket when a 10$ stamped steel bracket can do the same work, why should we not be allowed to use Billet aluminum? Common mass mentality is that you've wasted 490$ when if fact you merely made a decision based on economics. if you want beautiful stranded and woven cables, by all means use them. in as far as 'expectation' bias... I have a different view point. if I am choosing to use something that costs me inordinately more to use, my 'Bias' is not one of justification, but one of criticality... In other words, I am actually going to be MORE CRITICAL of that item, not less critical. I liked the last paragraph. Beautiful, stranded? Nope solid copper not stranded.. look into it. I can see which side is the most vocal. Economics? Nope, the sound. You've had some gorgeous speakers and I'm sure you still do. The gear you've tried out and decided to sell here that I have seen must put you in a high tax bracket. There's an online place in Michigan that used to let you try before you bought with small segments of wiring. Check it out and you might be amazed if you're still running 18g into your Heritage! It as only ten feet or so, so that was different than the old days of comparing wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 If I have something to say about other's choices it will be clearly stated. Otherwise I say what pertains to my choices on the subject at hand. Man this place is getting touchy since I came back. What happened? Not accepting it's the change in policy concerning changing speaker components. C'mon we're supposed to be sharing something we enjoy and not seeing a lot of enjoyment here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1291 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 32 minutes ago, geezin' said: not seeing a lot of enjoyment here. i'm having a great time. A double frontal lobotomy and deaf w/o my hearing aids. Back in the day a guy just pointed to the wire and I'd run it here or there til I saw the colored ends then plug 'em in to the colored plugs on the cabs. Always sounded great to me. Then I'd smile and everyone was happy. "Can you hear me in the back?" It always sorted. Next stop repeat. Now I just sit here all chill like. Turn it up! Right @JohnJ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me than a prefrontal lobotomy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, geezin' said: Man this place is getting touchy since I came back. What happened? You must be new here. There used to be great arguments about this. We're talking threads locked and members banned type of squabbles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 hours ago, JohnJ said: I'd call it heavy in the bass, muffled mids and treble! These gave a much better clean & clear from 20 to 20Khz John , I'm curious are both cables the same length? How long of time between swapping? And were levels matched between the 2 evaluations? You guys are really making me want to try some star quad just to see if I CAN hear a difference. I use SQ for microphone cables and some IC if thats's what is laying around. But for speaker cables? Never really thought about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: You must be new here. There used to be great arguments about this. We're talking threads locked and members banned type of squabbles. Yep cables and capacitors bring out the best in all of us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, geezin' said: C'mon we're supposed to be sharing something we enjoy and not seeing a lot of enjoyment here. I wasn't angry or upset, tried to show that with smileys! On the other hand, got to defend my side that possibly others agree with that some cables arre better than others. That first part of your statement made a lot of sense, like everyday wisdom? Or maybe common sense? Dig it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 23 hours ago, babadono said: John , I'm curious are both cables the same length? How long of time between swapping? And were levels matched between the 2 evaluations? You guys are really making me want to try some star quad just to see if I CAN hear a difference. I use SQ for microphone cables and some IC if thats's what is laying around. But for speaker cables? Never really thought about it. Oh those ten gauge I tried and put the ends on them myself. No issues with that they are hooked up well. Wondered if they could improve on what I had with me at the time (was not the AQ's) So from 14 to 10 g I believe the 14 was a lot longer. So it was not a good comparison, but I did not like the sound. I removed the KnuConcept 10 g a couple days later. As a matter of fact if anyone wants the 10 g they can pm me and pay shipping and I'll send them out!! Audio Advisor in MI used to do the listen before you buy. Read about that those quad, they do sound better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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