The story of a new Underground Jubilee owner

[Flevoman]

One thing I always really enjoy about this forum, besides all the help and useful information, is reading about other people's experiences.This time, I thought I’d contribute my part; I’m on summer holliday and have some time, so here’s my story about the Underground Jubilee. For those who aren’t interested in a lengthy (because it will be) ramble, this is your chance to spend your time in a more meaningful way. For those still here, welcome... I hope my writing is at least somewhat enjoyable to read.

 

**Background:**

 

Let me start with a bit of background to clarify where I come from in terms of audio. Many years ago, I began with the RF3, which later became the RF2. After hearing the Forte 2 and a La Scala, I knew for sure that I needed to own the La Scala as well. However, these speakers aren’t exactly common in the Netherlands, but I managed to find a pair of AL3s in Belgium.

Unfortunately, I didn’t get to enjoy them for very long. My passion for audio and Klipsch faded after a failed upgrade of my Dynaco ST70, which dulled the sound. At that time, I didn’t have the resources to solve this, and as a result, my passion for audio and Klipsch waned. The La Scala went into the garage, and I spent years listening to a Sonos system (shame on me).

But as they say, blood is thicker than water, and after years of treating music as mere background noise, the desire for more immersive sound returned. I managed to get a good deal on a pair of Heresy 2s, and with that, Pandora's box was opened again. 😁

The passion came back, Klipsch remained my kind of sound, and soon I followed up with the Chorus 1, the CW3, then traded the AL3 and CW3 for the CW4. Of course, it could always be better, so hop, onto the AL5... and now, for the past few weeks, my endgame speakers, the Underground Jubilee.

 

**Acknowledgments:**

 

Now I’d like to take a moment to thank two people for making it possible for me to own the UJ. First, @KT88, for his patience in providing information and assistance, for facilitating the deal, and for not selling his UJ to the highest bidder online, but instead offering them to me at a very fair asking price. And @mikebse2a3, who greatly helped me with his knowledge, patiently answered all my questions (and there were quite a few), and provided insights and knowledge. Thank you, gentlemen!

 

**The Purchase:**

 

The UJ first came into my sights when I purchased someone’s 45 SET amp. This person also had the UJ, and half-jokingly, I said, "If you ever decide to part with them, please contact me first." Knowing how rare these speakers are in Europe and how unlikely it is that they would ever be sold. Months later, I received a message offering the UJ due to the purchase of other speakers. Naturally, I was super enthusiastic—this was a unique opportunity. What I considered to be a once-in-a-lifetime chance...

But it was also quite daunting. My knowledge is still at a beginner’s level, and these are definitely not plug-and-play speakers. What if I couldn’t get the DSP box set up correctly? What if I didn’t receive help through this forum? What if I couldn’t get the speakers to sound right and ended up losing my passion again? I had already experienced with the AL5 that a better speaker in the Heritage line doesn’t automatically mean it will sound better in your home. Eventually, I managed to get the AL5 to sound amazing, but it took some work. So, what if I couldn’t get these working in my living room? Could I sell these speakers if needed without suffering too much financial loss?

As you can see, I had many uncertainties. I saw a lot of obstacles... but the UJ!!! Come on, I couldn’t pass up such an opportunity because of a few doubts! This is unique... I wasn’t going to walk away just because I didn’t dare take a gamble!

 

**Research and Decision:**

 

What followed was a lot of reading and researching on the internet and reaching out to forum members with questions. How does the AL5 compare to the UJ? Is the UJ really better than the AL5? How difficult is it to set up the DSP box? Unfortunately, it wasn't possible to listen to the AL5 and the UJ side by side.

Due to uncertainties and other factors, I hesitated to close the deal—too much money was involved, and for me, there were too many obstacles... Shit...

However... KT88 was busy in the meantime and had acquired a Khorn somewhere. Now, owning the La Scala, Khorn, and the UJ apparently gave him enough motivation to make a choice. Suddenly, there was a message from KT88 asking if I might be interested in taking over his UJ and its accessories. He knew about my previous interest in the other UJ and understood that my interest in these speakers was still there.

And so it happened that I was presented with a fantastic offer, both in terms of the package and the asking price. The UJ, TAD 4002, Faital drivers with passive X-over, original K69 driver, and the Yamaha 2060 DSP. An offer I simply couldn't refuse—truly a unique opportunity, in my opinion.

And so, after some waiting, a German van drove into the street with KT88 at the wheel (he even delivered them) with his van filled with goodies. It was great to finally meet KT88 in person after weeks of communicating via PM. He’s a very calm and friendly man who did his utmost to leave everything in perfect condition, connected, and set up. He spent a few hours working on this, and I was immensely grateful, as I think it would have been a tough job for me due to my lack of proper knowledge. Shout out to KT88

 

**The Experience:**

 

And then, suddenly, they were in my room. I always thought the AL5 were very large speakers, but the UJ makes the AL5 look small. These speakers are visually imposing. Pffff... I still chuckle sometimes when I see them standing there. The UJ with TAD 4002... how much better could it get?? Wow... And now that’s in my house!!

But somewhere, I also miss the appearance of the AL5. I really thought they were beautiful speakers with their veneer finish and design. I saw them as pieces of furniture in my living room, eye-catchers... Often, I would walk by and let my hand glide over the top of the speaker, making contact with my love for audio and Klipsch. I was also proud to own them. These were, in fact, my endgame speakers. Maybe I would add a Heritage sub next to them, but they weren't going anywhere. 

And now this stands in the living room!!! Ok, I knew in advance that they have a different look, and I had also planned to work on the UJ's appearance if everything sounded good. My idea was to recreate the HJ look but slightly narrower. But until then, they are enormous black boxes that do nothing good for the aesthetics of the living room...

 

**How Do They Sound?**

 

So, how do they perform? How does the UJ sound compared to the AL5? First, I want to say that through my experience climbing the Heritage ladder, I’ve noticed that each speaker has its own unique sound. At first, I thought the Chorus would sound like a Heresy, just with more bass. Now, I have to say that I found the tonal difference between the Heresy and the Chorus the least noticeable, apart from the fuller sound. But for example, the CW4 or the AL5, I find to be really different tonally. You recognize the Klipsch roots, but the CW4 sounds bright to me and has a more modern sound, whereas the AL5 had a slightly darker sound, with a huge midrange that also has a delightful kick and punch.

The UJ, again, sounds very different from the AL5. Somewhere, it was quite naive of me, but I had assumed beforehand that the sound would be somewhat like the AL5, just with more and deeper bass. No... the UJ simply sounds very different. This took some getting used to for me. I had become very familiar with the AL5 sound, which I loved. And now, suddenly, it was gone. 

I could tell that these speakers had much more potential than the AL5 in every way, but because the amplifiers were not yet properly matched, and I was initially using the wrong amplifiers, and because I still had to get used to the different sound, I didn’t immediately get that WOW feeling. 

Well, I did have a WOW feeling because these speakers can create an enormous amount of sound and a grand soundstage. They were definitely impressive. But the sense of being drawn into the music, which the AL5 did so well, was missing. I caught myself skipping tracks in the first few days rather than listening to them all the way through because I wasn’t being drawn in as much. The UJ made me feel a bit restless, whereas with the AL5, I could just zen out in pure bliss.

Gradually, with a lot of help from Heinz and Mike, they started to sound better. First of all, I’m convinced that despite my large living room, I have a lot of acoustic issues. Initially, the bass sounded boomy and dominant here. After finding a better amplifier combination, properly adjusting the balance between the amplifiers, and using the DSpeaker anti-mode 2 (which made a world of difference for me), the UJ started to sound more musical. Gradually, I also began to get more accustomed to the different sound, and soon came the first evenings where I was really enjoying myself. There was even one evening where I was so emotionally drawn into the music that I started to tear up... something that had never happened before.

 

**Final Thoughts:**

 

Now, several weeks later, I can give a better comparison of the UJ vs. AL5. I’m still not completely there, especially in terms of the holographic imaging, which I believe can still be improved, but the UJ sounds grand. It sounds grand and full of energy. It’s truly impressive. The UJ can create a real wall of sound. Additionally, the speaker sounds very clear. Much clearer than the AL5. I really had to get used to this clear sound, as the AL5 had a somewhat darker tone (at least that’s what I think). You also hear much more detail. Electric guitars, cymbals, they sound rich and full. The bass is much more present than with the AL5, which also took some getting used to for me. I’m not a basshead, so at first, I turned down the bass a bit in the DSpeaker settings. But the bass is full, has punch, and goes deeper. After getting used to it and fine-tuning, I’m very happy with how the bass now sounds compared to the AL5.

The UJ outperforms the AL5 in every aspect. The only thing the AL5 did very well in this living room was giving the feeling that the band was really in front of you, that they were live in the living room. Unfortunately, I still get this feeling less with the UJ. However, I attribute this not to the speaker but to my acoustics (which is still a subject I need to work on) and further fine-tuning.

Sometimes, I still get some sharp/harsh edges in the music that are annoying. But that's not a deal breaker, something that should be solvable one way or another. I also feel that a bit more warmth in the midrange would be more pleasant. This could very well be the result of my adjustment to the AL5 sound, but for now, it would be welcome. I still have a way to go to get these speakers to sound just right. I knew this beforehand—they aren’t plug-and-play speakers, but that’s okay. This is part of the hobby. As long as I don’t hit a wall due to lack of knowledge and skill, I have every hope that I will get there. For example, I’m currently working with REW and a Umik 1 microphone, and I think there’s still room for improvement there as well.

I consider myself incredibly fortunate that this opportunity came my way and I’m extremely grateful, just as I am for all the help I’ve received. To those who managed to keep reading until this point, thank you for your interest, and I hope it was somewhat entertaining to follow along with my journey.

 

Flevoman

[Schu]

they don't call it 'Holiday' in Nederland?

[Flevoman]

You're correct. 

The Dutch word is "zomervakantie" 

Translated it would be "summer holliday" 

Edit :I corrected it 😉

[babadono]

@Flevoman Wow cool story. Enjoy. As you get them super dialed in to your room you will love them I'm sure. Tame any first reflections and imaging will improve. Now what is @KT88 moving on to?

[LTusler]

Welcome to the UJ club!

The good news is you can adjust them, but thats also the bad news!  Because is hard to stop tweaking.

[KT88]

I sold the UJ with a heavy heart. But we will be moving to a new smaller apartment in the next two years, all the children are grown up and two of the three will still be with us for another year or two until they have finished their studies. Because it is incredibly expensive to rent your own apartment as a student here in Cologne. But they have their own life here (and Diana and me as well😀) because it is really plenty of space for everyone.

After that, I won't be able to set up the UJ anymore. I've had so much fun with it since 2008...which is a frighteningly long time, OMG, time flies and I will never forget the answer from Roy @Chief bonehead to my request that I wrote in 2008. "I will see how to get you a pair of Jubilees". I have kept the mail from Roy.

It was not just speakers, it was an absolute event to acquire the UJ. @mikebse2a3 helped me so much back then with all his knowledge and all his unconditional warmth, just as he is now helping Melvin @Flevoman with his AL5 and the UJ (ok, I do a little bit too). Mike from Tennessee had suggested to Roy in 2008 that I should also be included in the UJ group, and so it was that I was in Hope AR in September 2009. The acquisition of the UJ was far more than the purchase of loudspeakers. I found a very friendly company in Hope, even though some people initially thought... what does this guy from Germany want here. In the end it was very, very warm. I am still in a very fruitful exchange with Mike from Tennessee and the other Mike from Chicago @DrWho here in the forum, has become a friend for life, who has been with us a few times, who came to Germany especially for my 60th birthday five years ago and whose wedding in Portugal two years ago my wife and I were invited to. That is so much more and very emotional what the UJ means to me. Once again, I am delighted that Melvin has taken over.

 

@babadono At the beginning of June, I bought a beautifully preserved Khorn from 1973 in Italy. It's my baby at the moment and I'm restoring it little by little. I'll open a thread about it when I've reached the first stage. Please do not reply or ask about it here. This is Melvin's thread.
I thought it was better to give the UJ to good hands now than to wait until the end. It makes me happy to know that Melvin is a successor who appreciates it.

[MMurg]

I'm glad you finally got them dialed in enough to enjoy them.  I know it's been a bit of journey for you.

[Flevoman]

@KT88Very nice to hear your story, Heinz. It adds value to these speakers to know the person and their personal story behind them.  

They are in good hands here, with a great Klipsch enthusiast who is grateful for this unique opportunity 🤗

 

@LTusler thank you... And indeed, these speakers are perfectly suited for endless tweaking.

 

@MMurgindeed, it was(is) a somewhat difficult path for me. This is due to my insecurity and the fact that my knowledge level isn’t quite where it needs to be for the UJ. And by the way, thank you for your feedback also 😉

 

 

[Tom05]

Nice write up , I find it interesting that the UG doesn’t quite measure up to the Lascala’s live performance capabilities. An impressive live performance capability  is the thing that I cherish most about Klipschorn and Lascala. It’s this  rare capability that I would argue supersedes any of the real or imagined deficiencies that some may describe of their performance. For those that value the sound of a live performance , a three channel Klipschorn/ Lascala “stereo “ front stage will create a formidable  live performance  combination . Good luck sorting things out.

[dtel]

Very nice story, the whole UJ thing was different the way it all started and became popular, although not surprised at all. 

 

 

[mikebse2a3]

What an interesting and great story the UJ have and it makes me smile to remember and have been one of the many who have supported them and been adventurous enough to step out of their comfort zone through the years to own them.

 

I’m happy @Flevoman has joined the adventure. 🙂

 

Thanks PWK and to Roy for the many opportunities you gave us to join, learn and share in the adventure..!!! 

miketn

[babadono]

I do not know a lot but what I do know is the higher you go up on the food chain of speakers the easier it is to find and ID bad recordings The Jubes are especially very good at helping with this. One needs to definitely be able to EQ or adjust tone control while enjoying the Jubes during a listening session.

And yes THANK YOU PWK and Roy.

[Schu]

^Hear Hear

[Flevoman]

I’m reading a lot about the UJ and acoustics (since I expect to gain a lot here). Acoustics is a tricky subject, partly because of the conflicting information on what and when to use. Absorption on the back wall or diffusers? And the same question for the wall where the speakers are located. 

Now, I came across an interesting post by Chris that resonates with me. Are there any UJ users who have done the same as Chris and had similar experiences?

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/131163-corner-horn-imaging-faq/&do=findComment&comment=1464805

[Schu]

diffusion on the front wall... absorption or combination of absorption/diffusion everywhere else.

 

the thing is, you need to target specific frequencies with absorption, otherwise you can exacerbate existing issues.

 

Absorption needs to be at least 25% of the wave length you are targeting at a given frequency... so, in terms of bass absorption, you need a VERY thick panel just to be even remotely effective.

 

also, research 'phase coherent' diffusion.

[Flevoman]

 

@Schu Thanks for your feedback.

Your explanation sounds logical, and I've read more or less the same thing before. However, Chris does things a bit differently here. As I understand it, he has treated the wall near the speakers with absorption. And used absorbtion only. 

Chris also mentions that Roy believes you should only use absorption and not diffusers.

I think his explenation is that the UJ behaves differently in the room, making this approach work well.

 

I’m planning to start addressing the acoustics in the living room soon, but I’m struggling to figure out whether I should focus on diffusers or absorbers. Besides the fact that this will take time and energy (which I don't mind at all), it will also cost a fair amount of money (if done properly), and I want to avoid spending it the wrong way. That's why I’m hesitant to just start experimenting without a clear direction.

 

By the way, I’m using a DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2, which already eliminates problems in the lower frequencies. So, as far as I understand, I shouldn’t need to worry too much about the acoustics below 300Hz, right?

[Schu]

it is a matter of personal preference...

I prefer a room that is more alive than one that is overly dampened. I have been in a number of rooms (including my own in the past) where they were overly damped, and it can kill the 'life' of a system.

 

in my space, I dont have issues with HF, I have issues with LF.

[mark1101]

In the Klipsch listening room the only absorption are panels at the front and back of the room in the center and nothing behind the speakers.  I assume to prevent direct "slap" from front to back.  Otherwise it is a slanted ceiling and curved panels on the side walls.  Fantastic wide open sound.  When I'm in there I want for nothing.

 

By comparison my room is over damped.  I would prefer a livelier room but it is a basement with open insulation on the ceiling.  I have absorbers behind the speakers and some on the front and back walls.  Probably too much.  Diffusion panels on the side walls and first reflection positions.

 

I would be wary of over damping.

 

I have a system in my garage built from leftover components adding up to peanuts and when the garage door is open there is a good argument that this is pretty darn good sound.  No room treatments except lawn mower, Harley, and a bunch of tools and equipment.

 

Sometimes less can be more.  Measurements and a good EQ can help a lot.

[Tom05]

I would experiment with absorption, absorption is an easy place to start . You can use common inexpensive materials for experimental or for permanent placement .Listening rooms provide an infinite number of reflective pathways to the listener   and as Schu said , “ it’s a matter of personal preference “  as to  how much absorption vs  reflection  suites your taste . As you reduce reflection , direct sound increases , and spacial information may become less confused , ( better imaging) but at what cost to  sound quality ?. Covering an entire wall or carpeting  a floor will add a meaningful percentage of  sound absorption to a room  , covered floors  hinder many  pathways of reflective sound , which can be good. From my experience trying  to predict the exact location of  objectionable reflections ,  and then trying to control them ad hoc is difficult or impossible to accomplish . Although  points of first reflection should be considered .I like  a different approach, which is to assess the entire room for liveliness and then deaden the room to satisfaction if necessary. 

[Shakeydeal]

I know I don’t own horns at the moment. But I just finished installing quite a bit of room treatment. The improvement is very dramatic. I knew there would be improvements, but wasn’t prepared for what I’m hearing.

There are more diffusers on the side walls not pictured.