meuge Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 JPM - A DAC is a digital-to-analog converter. In order to play digital recordings, they need to be converted into analog medium. The accuracy and, often more importantly, the consistency of the conversion, have a great effect on the quality and the perceived sonic signature of the sound. CD players all include a DAC, but old CD players' DACs are generally, though not always, significantly inferior to more modern offerings. That's why I use an offboard DAC unit. The way you run it is such that the signal follows the following path: Source(Computer, CD player, etc...) -> (via digital interconnect) -> DAC -> (via analog interconnect) -> Preamp -> Amp -> Speakers CD player is just an integrated source/dac the same way that an integrated amp is a pre-amp/amp in one box. And before I have to go let me re-iterate that according to my own experience, equipment affects sound quality in this order (from more important to less important): 0. Recording Quality (this is the one everyone forgets) 1. Speakers 2. Amplifier 3. Pre-amp 4. Room 5. DAC 6. Source 7. Cables/Interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Well I been listening to alot of cds as of late,most are Rock,many remastered,I have about a thousand.I gotta say I'm very happy with 90% of em',there are a few,"Cream" for example that were just poor recordings but great music.There is some validity to the points made about synergy between components also. I'm listening to the "Gregg Allman Tour" right now (about 30 odd yrs old)and it sounds fantastic.I also had on Aerosmiths "Pandoras Box"and it was really good.I think the reason I came to like certain albums in the first place is they were not only great albums but good recordings. I've had many other set ups on my 7s with lots of issues but my current set up gives me no reason too complain. One thing I have learned,when theres a problem with the 7s,it ain't the 7s its upstream.Thats not to say Deans mod can't make a good thing even better,it sounds like it could.If I weren't so content w/my current set up I'd already have some,thats probably my next upgrade when I get bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 great!!! looling tele you have fish. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 Well, I have my answer. I rolled off the treble a bit negative of flat, shut the curtains, increased the bass just ever so slightly and now most everything sounds good. Oh sure, some old CDs will never sound worth a damn and I've decided to use them as clay pigeons and give my Ithaca shotgun a run at them. Travesty? Hardly. I don't listen to them because they're so crappy. They're no longer going to take up space in my house. I'm also no longer going to be afraid of my tone controls. Home audio is not an exact science and most everyone has their opinion on how to achieve nirvana in their own system. This has been a great thread in my opinion. I've learned a lot. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 IMO (!) the Solti Mahler 5 suffers from overmiking. It's dynamic but a very good (read: natural/lifelike) reproduction of an orchestra playing in a real hall it is not. Though I have to admit that after EQing my system one does hear a bit more of the recording venue, which, I have read somewhere, contains a wider and less deep stage than in other halls. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 jpm, I would take the CDs someplace and trade them in on something else. If you have quite a few, you might be able to pick up some other good music. We have a couple of great used stores in the Chattanooga area. Books and CDs get traded all the time. Someone might loke those awful CDs. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinlr Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 4:15:34 PM dubai2000 wrote: IMO (!) the Solti Mahler 5 suffers from overmiking. It's dynamic but a very good (read: natural/lifelike) reproduction of an orchestra playing in a real hall it is not. Though I have to admit that after EQing my system one does hear a bit more of the recording venue, which, I have read somewhere, contains a wider and less deep stage than in other halls. Wolfram ---------------- I will agree with you on that. However, my viewpoint is different - having played in many music ensembles (including an orchestra) I tend to prefer the sound very up front and in your face and coming from many different sources. So muli-miking and a lack of space may not bother me as much. A friend of mine and were talking one day and he made an interesting point - he said that, in his opinion, most orchestral music is written for the musicians in the orchestra more than for the people listening. And the very reason for his statement is that it all sounds so much better sitting in the middle of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 5:41:16 PM richinlr wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 4:15:34 PM dubai2000 wrote: IMO (!) the Solti Mahler 5 suffers from overmiking. It's dynamic but a very good (read: natural/lifelike) reproduction of an orchestra playing in a real hall it is not. Though I have to admit that after EQing my system one does hear a bit more of the recording venue, which, I have read somewhere, contains a wider and less deep stage than in other halls. Wolfram ---------------- I will agree with you on that. However, my viewpoint is different - having played in many music ensembles (including an orchestra) I tend to prefer the sound very up front and in your face and coming from many different sources. So muli-miking and a lack of space may not bother me as much. A friend of mine and were talking one day and he made an interesting point - he said that, in his opinion, most orchestral music is written for the musicians in the orchestra more than for the people listening. And the very reason for his statement is that it all sounds so much better sitting in the middle of it. ---------------- Interesting point of view....too bad I don't play any instrument myself...but then I seem my Khorns (and gear) as a pretty good substitutes . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 2:00:59 PM mike stehr wrote: That remark may be your honest opinion, but Dean and I feel you don't have enough experience with tube amps to make those claims. Just our honest opinion. ---------------- Whether it's tube or solid state, an amp that's out of spec will not realise it's full potential, nor will it allow the loudspeakers to realise their full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 1:57:05 PM DeanG wrote: Well, considering your now extensive past experience with various tube amps, you've certainly made great effort in refraining from speaking about it here or anywhere else on the forum. As far as the SCA-35 goes, most here I'm sure remember the threads. It was a 40 year old stock unit. EDIT: Now that I think about it, I believe you were running it with an equally old and suffering Dynaco preamp. If I'm wrong on both counts, I'll be glad to deliver an apology. ---------------- never ran a dynaco preamp.... more faulty memory.... BTW - i never said the dynaco was "out of spec" - MORE faulty memory.... i sure hope you do better work on amps than you remember conversations..... i'll be sure to check with you and mike if i want to post my opinon concerning tube amps! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 "I'll be sure to check with you and mike if I want to post my opinon concerning tube amps!" That's right, and don't you forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 4:15:34 PM dubai2000 wrote: IMO (!) the Solti Mahler 5 suffers from overmiking. It's dynamic but a very good (read: natural/lifelike) reproduction of an orchestra playing in a real hall it is not. Though I have to admit that after EQing my system one does hear a bit more of the recording venue, which, I have read somewhere, contains a wider and less deep stage than in other halls. ---------------- Wolfram, I wasn't commenting at all on sound quality or microphone techniques, strictly the performance. Solti is aggressive and passionate on M5, just like it needs. While we're on the subject of Mahler, I had the great pleasure of receiving a 1966 Horenstein (BBC Legends label) Mahler 9 today. Do you have that one? It is a goosebump-making performance. I bought it through amazon.com's Buy used function. The 2-CD set from amazon is $35.98. But there was a private vendor selling it through the Buy used link for just $12.99, and it was still sealed. It's nice to find a good bargain on great music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 never ran a dynaco preamp.... more faulty memory.... BTW - i never said the dynaco was "out of spec" - MORE faulty memory.... i sure hope you do better work on amps than you remember conversations..... You're right, you ran it with the preamp section of your Pioneer reciever. I never said YOU said the Dynaco was out of spec -- I said it was out of spec. I remember when you bought it off of eBay. I seem to remember a thread where we were encouraging you to get it looked at because of it's age. Of course, with my memory failing me at every turn ... I remember most "conversations", but don't always do well with the details I suppose. However, remembering the content of over 20,000 posts is a little tough. Well, I do the best I can. My work on amplifiers is exemplary. If you're ever having a problem with yours, please feel free to send it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:19:28 PM minn_male42 wrote: i'll be sure to check with you and mike if i want to post my opinon concerning tube amps! ---------------- Now, what a good idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 7:24:24 PM DeanG wrote: never ran a dynaco preamp.... more faulty memory.... BTW - i never said the dynaco was "out of spec" - MORE faulty memory.... i sure hope you do better work on amps than you remember conversations..... You're right, you ran it with the preamp section of your Pioneer reciever. I never said YOU said the Dynaco was out of spec -- I said it was out of spec. I remember when you bought it off of eBay. I seem to remember a thread where we were encouraging you to get it looked at because of it's age. Of course, with my memory failing me at every turn ... I remember most "conversations", but don't always do well with the details I suppose. However, remembering the content of over 20,000 posts is a little tough. Well, I do the best I can. My work on amplifiers is exemplary. If you're ever having a problem with yours, please feel free to send it over. ---------------- no worry.... if i ever have a problem with my carver pro amplifier, it will be sent directly to carver for service BTW - i have heard some very high quality tube amplifiers - audio research (at the factory here in minneapolis - actually a suburb - plymouth, minnesota - about 6 miles from my house) and VTL and BAT at a local dealer (hi-fi sound in minneapolis http://www.hifi-sound.com/index.html ) http://www.audioresearch.com/ http://www.vtl.com/pages/stereo_amplifiers.html http://www.balanced.com/products/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A few random shots in the dark: In the dark ages (mid 70s) I noticed my Blue Note jazz stuff now sounded like shirt. My worn out copies sounded better, despite the wear and noise. (if I liked the music I owned two or three copies, one to play along with, one to listen to, and one for backup) The answer turned out to be simple and complex at the same time. Early solid state gear left something to be desired. The master tape was done with tubes, for later pressings this master was played back on a solid state deck. This was enough to really mess up the sound of the new copy of the LP. Another problem was the mastering lathe. Decca used to half speed master all its recordings, not in a search for excellence, but because the cutting head amplifier was not big enough. Big, cheap solid state watts made half speed mastering for dynamic range unneeded. The big point here was not so much sand vs glass, but electrolytic coupling caps vs Vitamin Qs (paper in oil). Much later something similar was noted when CDs from analog masters sounded better than those from digital masters. In this case it turned out to be the anti-aliasing filters, and oversampling went a long way towards fixing this. Yet again today I would have to agree that most music sounds harsh and bright (and I would have to add, with no real high end), to the point where EQ can't really fix. For most popular music the fix has been a DBX 3BX (1st series, series II is not as good, and series III bring too much $$$). That hard, bright, brittle edge was compression. Warning: the bass in rap does not like DBX, by the time the highs sound right, the bass can sound really strange. I could probably figure out a way around this, but I don't really go for rap anyway. I find that even CDs that claim to be DDD can use a touch of the DBX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheis Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I'm not familiar with the particular Denon amp you have, but I recently bought a Denon AVR 1804 (6 channel 90wpc I believe) and was not very happy with the sound quality. I picked up a Niles DPS-1 so that I could a/b the Denon against my old B&K ST140 (105 wpc) driving my Cornwalls. Compared to the B&K, the Denon REALY sounded like CRAP regardless of the source. To me the sound quality of the Denon was simply unacceptable, so I took it back, bit the bullet and bought a B&K Ref 50 Pre/Pro and a couple more 2 channel amps. The difference is dramatic. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 The only uses I have found for Dynaco SCA-35s are a door stop or donor amp. Dynaco being a transformer company, the SCA's were built around fantastic transformers. That said the circuitry and components left much to be desired. I find the SCA-35, even after cap replacement, to sound like a veil (rug) has been put over the speakers. The same transformers used with a newer circuit simply puts the SCA to shame with dynamics, clarity and frequency response especially at the extremes. MHO, YMMV,Etc. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinlr Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:03:58 PM dubai2000 wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 5:41:16 PM richinlr wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 4:15:34 PM dubai2000 wrote: IMO (!) the Solti Mahler 5 suffers from overmiking. It's dynamic but a very good (read: natural/lifelike) reproduction of an orchestra playing in a real hall it is not. Though I have to admit that after EQing my system one does hear a bit more of the recording venue, which, I have read somewhere, contains a wider and less deep stage than in other halls. Wolfram ---------------- I will agree with you on that. However, my viewpoint is different - having played in many music ensembles (including an orchestra) I tend to prefer the sound very up front and in your face and coming from many different sources. So muli-miking and a lack of space may not bother me as much. A friend of mine and were talking one day and he made an interesting point - he said that, in his opinion, most orchestral music is written for the musicians in the orchestra more than for the people listening. And the very reason for his statement is that it all sounds so much better sitting in the middle of it. ---------------- Interesting point of view....too bad I don't play any instrument myself...but then I seem my Khorns (and gear) as a pretty good substitutes . Wolfram ---------------- After you have been in the middle of it you are sort of ruined forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 jheis, one cannot compare any Denon receiver with a Denon PMA2000 integrated amp. They're two entirely different animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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