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Where did the love go?


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My friends in the Klipsch community,

I have, for some time now, considered writing this letter to the forum. But, each time I sat down, I always hesitated - it'll get better on its own, I thought. Well, it's not... So, here's my rant:

Although I don't know TV (Mr. Vodhanel), I sense from over a year of reading his posts here and on the AVS Forum that he's a man of integrity. Although he has a growing company, he doesn't toot his own horn and he frequently offers suggestions and positive comments about competetive products. I have read nothing but praise for his professionalism and customer care. He seems to be, in all ways, a true gentleman. Oddly, I feel the need to apologize to him for the actions of others - TV, please know that *we* appreciate all your impartial assistance and help!!

This is as much a community as my neighborhood or yours. This is a community of distant people who share a common interest and love. Like any community, however, there are the good and the bad. The kind and the mean. The helpful, caring, friendly people and the rude, inconsiderate jerks.

I've made some true friends through this forum - heck, I even drove 1300 miles to meet up with some of these "strangers" in Hope last February. I felt comfortable doing so because this was a warm, helpful forum filled with people who would go out of their way to help fellow board members, both new and old. People like (in no particular order) DougDrake, SteveP (and Mystery Guest too, of course), WillJam, Tony Reed, John Albright Al K, Gil McD, Ray Garrison, Phil Hatch, Bob G, Trey and Matt and any number of others I obviously missed here. And, of course, TV. These people took their time to donate their positive comments, their suggestions, their humor. They went out of their way to guide, help and smile.

Am I alone in noticing a change? It seems to me that many of these participants are notably absent, of late. If not truly absent, they seem to participate much more rarely and briefly. I'd like to invite them back. They, and all who wish to keep the positive, friendly tone of this forum, are appreciated and missed. This is a unique BB, made possible by a company that allows uncensored discussion about their products and their competitors'. They don't panic if someone mentions Paradigm or SVS or even Bose - well, maybe there *are* limits... Smile.gif

Let's *all* remember that this is a community, and that positive social skills and the common rules of decency still apply.

Thank you Klipsch and thank you my friends,



"Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana."

This message has been edited by RossVTaylor on 10-04-2001 at 06:22 PM

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Ross - You're not alone, buddy. As in most cases, it is a small percentage who affect the whole. However, your observation about diminished posts from some of the old (no age reference Smile.gif) reliables is accurate, I think. I, for one, probably think twice about posting on some topics because I'm not anxious to open myself up to ridicule or flames. Those are characteristics of the "other" bulletin boards, from which this was/is always a welcome refuge.

I find myself skipping reading many posts now, as well, because they ramble off into the ditch.

Perhaps it is this cold electronic medium that makes it seem harsh at times, because we can't see the smile, the wink, the gleam in the eye, or the tongue in the cheek of the writer. That is the failing of the 'net -- no human touch.

But knowing that is true, I think we can all benefit from re-reading our posts before submitting to make sure they won't be misconstrued, and adding emoticons as necessary to convey the sentiment behind the post.

Yipes, look at me ramble...


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I'm with ya, Ross.

Politeness and manners are rare qualities these days. It seems that not only are we not teaching folks to be nice, but that it's appropriate to be obnoxious if you feel like it.

I think it goes beyond the "impersonal" nature of this medium. It's deeper than that. A thoughtful person will measure their response no matter how they are communicating with someone. It simply appears that fewer folks are bothering themselves with the "unpleasantness" of being a decent human being these days.

My personal opinion about the Klipsch boards as of late is that, with the popularity of Klipsch's promedia line, there are a great deal of folks roaming around, here, who have little to no interest in our hobby. I have a feeling that many of these gentle people purchased the promedia's because a game magazine somewhere said that, with them, one feels as though rockets are being launched into one's *** when playing such-and-such video game. I've been on the Quake 3 servers....not a nice place. Similar conversations to which you're referring are frequent.

I may be off base, I don't know. I certainly intend no offense to promedia owners. I wouldn't mind having a set myself to tell the truth. I do think, however, that having a product in the lower price strata is going to attract a multitude of folks to the BB, many of whom will share neither our interests in Klipsch as a serious speaker company nor our attitudes about the proper way to behave towards each other. It's simply a question of numbers.

Please, stick it out, Ross. I've been loitering around in here for nearly a year and have a mental list of members who's posts I read without fail. A core group of "always useful or interesting" folks who are the reason I keep coming back. You're part of that list and I would hate to miss out on your insights and comments. That goes for the rest of you "old timers" too. There are a lot of lurkers out here who appreciate what you have to offer.

Please don't give up!



Heresy Mains (Birch)

Heresy Surrounds (Walnut)

RC-3 Center

(Because a C7 won't fit!)

SVS 20-39cs/Samson S700

Denon 2801

Acurus 100x3

JVC D-Series

Pioneer DV-525

This message has been edited by jelliott100 on 10-04-2001 at 09:40 PM

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hear! hear!

I have noticed the same thing and wonder where it has come from. Now when I answer a post I wonder how old the person asking the question is ....


horns & subs; lights out & tubes glowing

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Well folks I'm new here about a month ! I find it to be a very Civil BBS compared to most out there. Spend some time on anantech's forum I'm a veteran there and its real harsh most of the time. Your alway's going to have bad apples just ignore them.

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I couldn't agree with you more! I'm a relatively new member (just this year) and when I first started hanging out here, I couldn't believe how much more civil this board was than all the others. But recently, it has started to become a flame-fest! I think it's horrific that TV has to defend himself and his products. He has been nothing but honest, sincere, and above all, a true gentleman. I am sure that there aren't a handful of people in the world that knows subs like he does.

Anyway, I keep coming back because there are a lot of nice people here who are always willing to share their thoughts, opinions and experience with someone who's trying to learn all he can about this new hobby. Thanks gang...


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Very well said. It seems that many of the "old timers" have been around here from day one. Come to think of it... I can't remember reading one negative post from any of those guys. These are the "class act" people! I have an opinion about many things like the others, I just don't have the need to shove it in someone else's face and scream about it. This BB has grown leaps and bounds in the recent past. I guess you get the bad with the good. I don't post as much because many of the technical threads are just out of my league. I do enjoy reading them, though. I especially enjoy reading the posts from the people I've met, as well as a few others. You know... you can sure tell a lot about someone by the way they post. The only thing I do know for sure is that I like Klipsch speakers, which is more than some people here can say.


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aw, shucks... Redface.gif

Ross, I guess I'm kind of the lone dissenting voice here...

I continue to enjoy the board more and more. Yes, I agree that there are more posts that seem insulting, angry, spiteful, or just mean spirited for the sake of being mean spirited. But there are also more new members with interesting ideas, new perspectives or previously unthoughtof suggestions. I think there's just more of everything now. The member list of this board is getting larger by the day... I don't know of ANY other vendor sponsered bulletin board that has the kind of community that Klipsch has attracted.

As to some of the older members posting less frequently, well, I can only speak for myself but I don't think my habits have changed all that much. I connect several times a day and check out what's going on, post a comment or two (or three or four or five...) if there's a thread I find interesting or a topic on which I think I have an observation that might be of interest... maybe it's just that with more and more members, the overall contribution of any one member is less significant that it was a year ago when the board was much smaller.

Regarding the specific issue of the discussion (?argument? ?spirited debate? ?hissy fit?) going on between TVodhanel and TheEARS regarding the relative subwooferworthyness of great big hulking masses of aluminum billets filled with Krell's selected bits of Unobtanium® verses the basic goodness and straightforward engineering of the SVS cannons, well, and I hate to say this 'cause I do feel like 'ears was a bit out of control and pee'd on TV's shoes for no reason, I've ENJOYED the verbal sparring. Tell you one thing... if I ever had the chance, I'd love to hear the setup TheEARS has, don't think I've seen that many subs in one place since Earthquake in SenSurround® back in 1973.

But that's just me...

Ray "one of the old guys" Garrison


Music is art

Audio is engineering

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one and all,

I can only speak for myself but I beleive it can be traced to 'Heritage Line Withdrawl Syndrome'.

Things have not been the same since they pulled it. I felt the earth move and everyone who loves these speakers had a change of attitude.

I don't post too much but I do read all threads on the big horn stuff and enjoy all the interaction.

Hoping the boys in Hope get their "new " drivers on line soon.



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There HAS been a recent degradation in the demeanor of the BBS lately, but it has come from a very few people and I don't think it has gotten serious, yet.

I still see the "Old Timers" posting and I visit at least once a day, so I think most of the core of the BBS is still active. My posts have become less frequent in the last few months because I see fewer questions that I have answers for. It seems I am learning about other Klipsch speakers other than the Heritage Series I have.


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I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, I've allowed myself to get somewhat involved in the TV/TheEars 'debate'. Perhaps I should get a game misconduct for 'third man in' but I couldn't help myself. Nothing infuriates me more than when someone makes questionable statements, is asked for information to back that statement up and then ignores the request completely and attacks from another angle. Oh yeah, and taking someone out of context and twisting their words, that burns me up too.

I've seen some of this recently and it bothers me greatly. I find this board to be a refreshing change of pace. I used to frequent photography BB's (photography is my other great passion) but I never posted. Those boards are filled with condescending jerks that belittle anyone that doesn't agree with their opinion. Not so here and at HTF (usually). I hope that this latest run of bad luck changes. And I'm going to try not to get sucked into it and accidentally contribute to the nonsense.


Primary System:

Main KG-4

Center KV-3

Rear RS-3

Yamaha HTR-5250

Sony DVP-S560D

Panasonic PV-9664

Sony DBS system


Main KG-3

Sony STR-AV920

Pioneer PD-4351

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I guess I'm ignorant. I can't say that I have noticed this board going into the toilet. But then again, I don't read every post. I would say that it seems that there has been some negativity lately, but that seemed to be coming from just a few select individuals. I'll continue to keep coming back to this board as long as the people who make this a great BB keep posting.

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I'm new to HT and the BB, although my posts do not reflect it, I'm on here almost every day. I've learned a lot from just reading different posts, at this moment I'm not adept enough to comment, so I don't. Sure, we all are know something about a myriad of subjects but no one person can know everything about every subject, that's why it's great to have a place to bounce it off of someone else. If know one else appreciates what you "veterans" are saying--I do. So, please continue with the honest and thoughtful suggestions that you are giving. Like myself, there's a lot more out there who are soaking it in without saying a word.
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Yeah, some of the posts here have been outright personal attacks - shame, I like to think we're a cut above. Like somehow enjoying the lovely sound of horns means you're "just a little different."

I really miss the posts which seemed more focused on getting the most out of big old horns. Now the board has taken a nasty turn towards unproductive audiophile talk - who has the "best ear" and who's right with no room for any voice but their own.

The bulletin board is so big and diverse that the tight group of horn lovers has been diluted. Maybe the board can be split into several sections?

Anyway, on the happy side, I was listening to my Cornwalls today (loud and clean) and was truly transported. It really felt great after a long, tough week. That's what it's all about.

Warm, happy regards


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Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised at the positive responses! I was a bit concerned about going down in a ball of flames... Smile.gif

I'm here every day, reading and learning, and I'll continue to participate. I enjoy this place too much! I just hate seeing well-intentioned people get slammed or insulted. I certainly don't mean to imply this BB is in the toilet or that it's not still one of the most friendly places on the net. (I'd say the happiest place on Earth, but I think Disney's got that copyrighted.) But I just seemed to notice more negativity and lack of respect from some people, and I felt compelled to remind them that we are guests here. And, of course, to express my thanks and admiration to those positive providers of insight and humor.

Thanks, to all, for taking this in the constructive tone in which it was meant. And thank you for making this forum the exceptional place that it is.



"Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana."

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There is something of a fraternal feel to this Klipsh Klub. Yesterday, I was talking to a guy here in Phoenix on the phone, who I had never met, who was selling his LaScala's for $450 (don't get me started on that -- I called 15 minutes too late, as they were being hauled off by some lucky person Frown.gif). We chatted for maybe 15 minutes, with him telling me the whole history of them, how he had worked at a burger joint in '82 as a teenager and saved all his $ to buy the LaScala's (and was thus the envy of his friends). I shared some experiences as well. Felt like we'd known each other for years.

An odd gathering, that's for sure. Few outside this circle understand. I've seen the eyes glaze over too many times!!


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Originally posted by Ross

I'm here every day, reading and learning, and I'll continue to participate. I enjoy this place too much! I just hate seeing well-intentioned people get slammed or insulted.

But I just seemed to notice more negativity and lack of respect from some people, and I felt compelled to remind them that we are guests here. And, of course, to express my thanks and admiration to those positive providers of insight and humor.

I completely agree with that.As I do with the first statement you made at the beginning of this post.

I now just read posts by those that have a positive attitude.If I see a certain "UserName",I just pass by,it doesn't matter what the subject is.Even if I have some input,I don't go there.I mean why bother.

I miss the BB the way it was not too long ago,it will get better.

Not everyone that rides a motorcycle is a"Hells Angel"

Part of my absence has been my want of a front projection system.AVS has a very good section on this with some very helpful people.

I still look here everyday,just keeping my key board silent.Wavey.gif

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