Back To The K77s

[BiggerIsBetter]

There is no way everyone is going to agree, there are a lot of different combinations of 77s (including condition), rooms, sources, and tastes. I dropped mine in last night. I think I have made about every mod possible to the corns and in my situation the new tweets are hands down the best overall improvement. My 77s dropped like a brick at 12k and sounded unclear at what they did produce....worst 1 octave driver I have heard. Again, this is the 77s I personally have. I would rate the changes I have made to the corns, highest return to lowest, as follows:

1. B&K tweeter

2. Band pass squaker (only tried it with the 401 horn) - evaluated separately from the new tweeter

3. New caps (garden variety MPP) in xover

4. K401 horn in place of K600

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Start changes that I could not really hear the difference, but I feel "better" that they are new....

5. New inductors (super Q erse) in LP of crossover

6. New AT

Your mileage may vary.....FWIW

[jwc]

There is no way everyone is going to agree, there are a lot of different combinations of 77s (including condition), rooms, sources, and tastes. I dropped mine in last night. I think I have made about every mod possible to the corns and in my situation the new tweets are hands down the best overall improvement. My 77s dropped like a brick at 12k and sounded unclear at what they did produce....worst 1 octave driver I have heard. Again, this is the 77s I personally have. I would rate the changes I have made to the corns, highest return to lowest, as follows:

1. B&K tweeter

2. Band pass squaker (only tried it with the 401 horn) - evaluated separately from the new tweeter

3. New caps (garden variety MPP) in xover

4. K401 horn in place of K600

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start changes that I could not really hear the difference, but I feel "better" that they are new....

5. New inductors (super Q erse) in LP of crossover

6. New AT

Your mileage may vary.....FWIW

Nice posts by the way.

I like that order of improvement posted. I must say I'm a little surprised that you placed the K401 upgrade last. I thought that upgrade for me was a noteable difference. Hence the whole reason for the Cornscala craze. Nice to hear another take on it.

As far as your cap upgrade being 3rd. An old cap on a first order network on the tweeter filter will REALLY make the K77 sound bad. When I just slipped in a theta, it was a big improvement.

jc

[Al Klappenberger]

mowntnbkr,

When you talk about mounting vertically, what exactly are you doing? I am taking this in the literal sense, meaning you cut a new hole and turn the horn 90 degrees. For some reason that just doesn't sound right, or does it have to do with the way the driver is mounted?

That is exactly what I mean. Turn it so it sits vertically. This always how it is shown and it's the correct way it should be mounted! Klipsch nounts it the other way becasue it is only being used 6000 Hz and up. You can get away with mounting it horizontally that way.

Al K.

[Gilbert]

I have mine knocked down a notch now using my "treble control" I beleive I will be getting a set of these in the near future.

SHAWING!! That looks like something I need. Check out the quick to adjust jumper pin assignments. Slick Al, really slick.

[Gilbert]

I get tired of hearing that this K77 only reaches to 12Khz

K77 maxing out at 12kHz! NO WAY Jose!

In my speakers (all of them), the tweet's have to be reaching somewhere between 14.5kHz (min.)and 17Khz (max.). I know my hearing isn't as stellar as alott of people here on the forum, but I'm positive mine are reaching well above 12kHz.

Who says the K77 (M or otherwise) dies out at 12kHz, and what crossovers are they using. How was it measured, and when was the test equip. last calibrated. A K77 in an adequately functioning Heritage speaker dying at 12kHz, NFW, I don't believe it.

By the way, I too have Crites tweet's, and the are an improvement for me, but I too have felt like Gary (maybe not to the same degree), in that there have been times when I though they were a LITTLE on the brite side, but definitely not painful.

[BiggerIsBetter]

I may have missed the boat a bit on the k600 to K401 replacement. It was certainly the hardest to judge since the difference is not measurable (i.e. the 401 is not louder as many may suspect) and there was the longest period of time between hearing the before and after. To further cloud the picture, I listened to another set of speaker in the interim.

Though I thought of moving it to a higher priority, I was looking at overall bang for the buck. While the horns were a near swap (if I sold the 600s that is), there was 15-20 hours of work involved and it was a PITA and largely irreverible. I would like to hear the before and after side by side, but I expect that many may be overstating the improvement and the "cost" side is certainly high. The best improvement I see, is the looks and easier access to the crossover (I moved mine outboard with the change).

[mark1101]

Although this is the "update and Modification" forum, it sounds like some of us sometimes reach a threshold when some mods deviate "too far" from the stock Klipsch sound.

I agree with Gary and Craig that you can go to a point and then the speakers lose that Klipsch sound. Now, I also agree that you can continue to improve the speakers regardless.

The Heritage platform is kinda like Harley Davidson. A really great platform as is, but an excellent platform for incorporating modifications.

It took me a while to get used to the modern networks because the ones I use border on losing the Klipsch characteristic sound. It's when I reinstall the originals that I realize those improvements are worthwhile.

I'm going to give the new tweeters a try and see where the chips fall.

I got my tweeter attenuators today (thanks Al), so I have weapons if need be. [][6]

Edit:

OK: Wrong forum..the rest stands.[]

[LarryC]

...When you run it 6000 Hz and up, like all the existing Klipsch netwroks now do, it doesn't matter how you mount it....

As a minor point of info that doesn't take away from your main point, the AK-4 network crosses at 4500, not 6000.

[Deang]

I guess that means Klipsch should have went with a different tweeter to accomodate the lower transition point.

[meagain]

Would going to Bob's tweeters from a K-77-m be more dramatic than if coming from a K-77 ???

[Cut-Throat]

Craig, I could not agree more. I hear all these mods described as night and day, jaw dropping, OMG, unbelievable...etc.

I have yet to change any one piece of equipment or any component of a piece of equipment and hear a revolutionary change. Improvements yes, differences yes...was that difference better...maybe, maybe not.

I think my biggest disappointment was my XO change. And not because of the resultant sound but my overly high expectations based on every one else's rantings and ravings. I was so fired up to be blown away that there was no way they could possibly live up to my expectations. There was actually things I liked better about my '87 AK2s.

It seems to me that there is this group think mentality going on here, or perhaps a case of the "Emperors New Clothes". One guy says it is the end all be all, and the other lemmings don't want to buck the trend. Or perhaps I just don't hear all that well.

If you already have a decent set of Heritage speakers and reasonably good equipment it takes a lot to make a major change.

For the record, I am happy with most of the mods/changes I have tired from forum suggestions. Keep them coming. But I also think we need to take a long hard look at the overly enthusiastic reactions thrown out.

Final note. To date the biggest single improvement I have made was my absorption and diffusion room treatments. Not a single change to equipment or parts of equipment had as much of an impact. Heck, I doubt all the other mods combined did not make that much of a difference. Still the room treatments were not "jaw dropping". Change for the better for sure...would I remove them, no way. Day and night change, NOT.

This is the only Mod that was Jaw Dropping to me. I'd never go back to a squawker.

With that said, I have ordered a pair of the Crites tweeters. - I will lower my expectations a bit.

[NOSValves]

Well the only thing that gets me going is the "constant K400 is crap" or the "K77 is crap"

I'm sorry but I've listen to Klipsch speakers consistently at least most of the day, near everyday for the last 5 years. Most of the time they were at or near 100% original. I could go back to original and do just that about every night with my living room system and still enjoy it immensely. I think its tasteless to be constantly trashing the speakers we all love. Yes they can be improved but they are not crap in any way, shape or form 100% original. Just about any product produced can be improved in some way.

Craig

[Jeff Matthews]

Hey, Cut-Throat, if you built a matching wood enclosure for that mammoth, that'd would look really cool!

NosValves, alas we agree! Amen, brother!

[NOSValves]

Hey, Cut-Throat, if you built a matching wood enclosure for that mammoth, that'd would look really cool!

NosValves, alas we agree! Amen, brother!

That is a scary thought for sure. OR SHOULD I YELL THAT LMAO !!!

[sfogg]

Cut-Throat,

What driver are you running on the 1005?

Those multi-cells sure do sound good don't they.

Shawn

[Cut-Throat]

I am running the Altec 288-16K Drivers. I have updated my profile. It was a few years old.

[IB Slammin]

Cut-Throat,

What driver are you running on the 1005?

Those multi-cells sure do sound good don't they.

Shawn

YUM!

tc

[Al Klappenberger]

Craig,

I don't know if it's me you are thinking of when you speak of people saying the K400 is crap, but as far as I go is to say that it is not very good. I believe it is bottleneck of the heritage speakers. I certainly is not crap! If you want crap, take a trip to Wall Mart and look in the boom-box department! I personally also disagree with trying to maitain the "Klipsch sound". It's my opinion that the "anything" sound is wrong. The idea is to reproduce the sound of the recorded performance as accurately as you can. This means "sweet", "musical", "fast" and all the other terms used to describe their speakers is simply forms of coloration. While it's true that you can never get total accuracy, it's what I beleive you should strive for. On the other hand, since you can't get total accuracy, you have to strive for what you like. If that is the "Klipsch sound", go fo it, but in that case why modify ANYTHING? They had the Klipsch sound 100% when the left the factory!

AL K.

[sfogg]

"

I am running the Altec 288-16K Drivers."

Gotcha, I'm running the 288-8K on 805Bs in my setup.

Shawn

[J.4knee]

You know there has to be a point where are Klipsch speakers are not Klipsch anymore....... I for one like trying these new mods but to say any of them are some huge leap forward is just crazy. Yes they bring some things into the mix that are enjoyable. But in some ways they also seem to turn are once human sounding speakers into technical analytical beasts. There is more to better then simple specifications and testing.

what brought us all to Klipsch??????

My pair of Lascalas in my shop are completely modified and IMHO can not be considered Klipsch anymore.... Do they sound good......You bet

My 1994 Lascalas in my living room are 100% Klipsch with the only modification being Stock value replacement capacitors in the crossovers. Do they sound great......YOU BET

I get tired of hearing how the K-400 is junk

I get tired of hearing that this K77 only reaches to 12Khz

Venting over....bring on the flames.

Craig

Yeah I see your point to a point. All of my mods are done such that they are reversible except the crossovers I will never go back the AL crossovers (I still have them but I have no use for them). I won't cut up these cabinets. I may build a new set of bass bins but cutting these cabinets up is not in the picture. I may and likely will reskin them with new veneer to repair the wear and tare damage resulting from moving 2/3 the way around the world once and cross-country 3 times. I think it is obvious Mr. Klipsch brought us all here with his exceptional speakers but I do enjoy the mods I have done. To my ears they are significant in that the improvements in clarity each mod has produced was/is immediately noticeable. That being said I do not believe the core sonic signature was altered in such a way that you do not recognize it. They still sound like La Scalas to me just more open and detailed. To me that is not a technically analytical beast but rather a speaker that has been kept up to date. My respect and admiration for PWK is why I will never make any alteration to them that is not completely reversable. Anyway point taken