meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 crossovers switched. Righ khorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 That "double hump" at the low frequencies is what I commonly see in my room. Does anyone have a "published" response curve of a Khorn bass bin? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 OK - So what point in the above chart area would be a good proper reference point to lower that tweeter section? What section, if anything in this graph is "proper & good"? To shoot for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Guys,Another big point, do NOT adjust your equalizer to equalize each speaker seperately. Your stereo image will go straight to h___! Adjust each speaker for a flat response, one at a time, then set the equalizer so that BOTH channels are identical and midway between the two adjustments! Set it for the average of both channels. AGAIN: Forget the listening chair. You can't compensate for that. I have to ponder what you said here...... The first sentance says don't 'equalize' each separately. The 2nd section says to do them separately - then bring them together in the middle. ?? And, wouldn't I want to set the sound as best I can where I actually listen? You are saying to ignore this and hence - I might end up with bad sound? Here's what it looks like where my ears are with both speakers running. 5/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Lisa your going to love this!!! If the null at 315 Hz bugs you when you and your husband get a chance swap the Left and Right Khorns to see if the null stays on the left location. The null wouldn't likely be from the floor or ceiling since thats the same for both Left and Right Speakers but it could be a result of some cancelation due to sidewalls or other room anomalies due to differences in the left and right locations such as walls, doorways, etc.... of the side walls. Use the EQ to lower the tweeter level as Shawn as indicated to see what that will sound like. This is for the most part is not any different than adjusting the Squawker Level with the autoformer taps because you are just doing it at line level voltages versus speaker level voltages. I agree with Shawn also if the purpose of any EQing is to adjust the total system which includes the near field and farfield(pratically everyone listens in the farfield in most home listening rooms) then the Mic should be used at the listening locations. If the purpose is to just EQ the drivers themselves then close in measurements will help at the very high frequencies but this would really require a anechoic chamber or measurement systems such as TEF and ETF type of programs that can gate the room influence out of the measurement (along with a large room for very low frequency accuracy also with these programs). mike[] Edit: I want to make it clear IMHO trying to EQ for farfield listening is tricky and will not work for alot of problems again because they are time related problems from reflections and such so alot depends on what the Ear/Brain System is willing to ignore/accept when trying to EQ for this purpose. My experience tells me that a good EQ used properly/cautiously can improve most systems/rooms but for really good reproduction Good Room Design and Room Treatments are a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Gee, I was out in the garage refinishing some old furniture. I have been missing out on all the excitement. A few points 1. Shawn is desperately trying to find out if the polarity (between left & right) is swapped. That is why he suggested the "image" test. If you don't have a test CD, then simply put on a "girl with a guitar". It will either sound precisely in the middle or the image will be diffuse. That will be a good clue. 2. It has also been pointed out repeatedly that the tweeter is hot. The magnitude is above and beyond which tap setting you are using. I would hazard a guess that this might explain the "harsh & shrill sound" you had mentioned. I am not sure what is causing this. The gain at the high frequencies is not trivial and it would not be the result of what flavor amplifier or tubes or capacitors you are using (unless something is really messed up). The good news is that you have a EQ to deal with this. 3, Acoustic measures are fun. In fact they are down right addictive. Al suggested turning up the test signal. A good idea. Part of what you may be measuring (esp at low freqs) could in fact be ambient noise. You need to get your test signal above that "noise floor". 4. On a positive note: Yes there are some peaks & dips (although there is good deal of "averaging" that you may be unaware of). But the frequency anomalies are not all that bad. Your room may not need very much treatment (depending on your goals & criteria, of course). You are almost there...... Keep the fiath, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Mike - I'm probably going to tackle the tweeter section tomorrow. I'm officially burned out. I'll be hearing pink noise in my sleep. Once I get that done, I'll deal with the rest of it. Though I imagine dealing with the 'rest of it' will make me perceive different issues in the tweeter area? IDK. It's interesting people have a problem with my bass. I like it. But I've no clue as to what I'm missing. Also, if the some low parts are too high on paper - perhaps that was quashing the tweeter for me and why I like it. I imagine when I chill out the tweeter - things might sound out of wack with the rest of it. Maybe. The good news is I'm on my 2nd beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Lisa, What year are your Cornwalls? Thanks for the explaination Dean. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 "OK - So what point in the above chart area would be a good proper reference point to lower that tweeter section? What section, if anything in this graph is "proper & good"? To shoot for?" Try using a single parametric EQ. I haven't used that Behringer.. but... Set the center frequency to say around 8500hz or so... you want it at basically the middle of that peak. Set the depth/gain to -10dB. Start out with the Q very wide so you see what this is going to do. Maybe 0.1 or something. Listen to how that changes the sound and try a measurement of it. You should basically see the entire speakers response start to drop off above say 300 or 400hz. It will drop down to around -10dB by around 2k or so. That is just to show you what you are doing. Now... set the depth/gain to say -6dB. Start increasing the Q and you will see the area the filter is working in shrink. Try around a Q of 3 or 4 and see what that sounds like. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Prestontom - It sounds like my tweeter section is pretty extreme. Would you consider it that? Or in the 'freekish' category? This gadget cost us $199 plus $40 for the mic. I haven't even touched the surface of what this thing can do. It's nuts! Rick - What year are my Cornwalls? Which ones? I happen to be sitting on 3 pairs right now! Not sure how that happened. BUT... the Zebra's that I bought from Smilin have crossovers from Dean (jensen cap). While I have issues with the boomy bass - the highs are FANTASTIC! They even sounded good when they were facing each other while I was moving things around. We mimic'd the khorn angle and moved the sofa back to accommodate their closeness, toed them out, etc. etc. No matter what we did they: 1) were not peircing. 2) didn't get all convoluted when playing music with tons of stuff/crescendos, etc. were going on - there was great instrument separation. 3) we could crank them LOUD and enjoy loud music. 4) Just sounded smoother up top. 5) Non-fatigueing. This epiphany was yet another reason I questioned the room being an issue. I've always questioned it. I know it's a different horn section though. I've been at a loss and even coming to the conclusion that I just don't like the khorn horn section. But if you are all seeing an anomaly at the tweeter section (which has been my gripe) - then maybe there's hope here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Lisa, my hat's off to you for tackling such an undertaking! I don't think I'd have the patients to do this sort of fine tuning. You are truely dedicated to achieving the best sound possible for your Klipschorns, and I hope you achieve your goal. Looks like you might almost be there, thanks to your help here on this thread (isn't this Klipsch Forum great or what?)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 She needs Al's attenuators, and I think I might just start adding them to my networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 The reason I asked about the Corns is if they are from the 70s they will have the round magnet ALNICO tweeters. The round magnet type might be better ,for you, than the square magnet type in your Khorns. They seem to have a softer, smoother sound. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Sfogg - Thank you. I've printed your instructions and will have hubby give me a primmer tonight on how to save settings in memory, etc. But it's likely (unless I get a 2nd wind), it'll happen tonight. I don't want him to do this cuz he'll suck richness & depth away! [] I REALLY REALLY appreciate yours and everyone's help here. !!!!!!!!!! Thank you all! I hate to eat my semi-burned dinner now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 She needs Al's attenuators, and I think I might just start adding them to my networks. Dean - Choose from this menu...... 1) a bowl of 'Wup Your ***' 2) there are no other menu options. Rick - Sorry. The Corns are 1978 w/Dean crossovers which I think are pretty basic 'cept for the shiney silver Jensen deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 '78s have the round magnet tweeters. That may explain why you like them better in the HF. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 She needs Al's attenuators, and I think I might just start adding them to my networks. Dean - Choose from this menu...... 1) a bowl of 'Wup Your ***' 2) there are no other menu options. Rick - Sorry. The Corns are 1978 w/Dean crossovers which I think are pretty basic 'cept for the shiney silver Jensen deal. LMAO. Hey, it's not my fault you have girly ears. You should send those back to me so I can install the 'Deang Girly Ear Tweek'. Seriously, I'll put in some nice L-pads -- no charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Your response is interesting, meagain; it says you didn't understand anything I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Your response is interesting, meagain; it says you didn't understand anything I said. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 She's relatively new to all this, the issues are complex, and people have been throwing what probably seems like an overwhelming amount of information at her. I get frustrated with her too at times, but it's not really fair to expect her to grasp things that the rest of us had years to assimilate into our thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.