Deang Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I feel bad that JC and Rigma took my statements to heart. I didn't mean what I said to be taken as an indictment. I should have just said that even if I had good woodworking skills I wouldn't attempt it because there aren't any detailed plans and left it at that -- and I'm talking like the kind of plans that even an imbecile could interpret and follow. JC, Rigma, Gil, and the couple of others who have done it are obviously brilliant and gifted people, and what they can do both amazes and humbles me. I don't like that I put them in a position where they felt the need to defend their enjoyment of that aspect of the hobby. Paul -- Roy said five more have jumped on. I think that brings the total count to just about dozen pairs over the last year. Not bad for a speaker that has no real market. I wonder how many Klipschorns PK sold in his first year after making them available. I think Roy is doing A.O.K. Bob -- I thought you were talking about mounting hardware for the horns/drivers, I didn't realize you were talking about a different way of finishing off the top. Yeah, I imagine that would work, and that's the beauty of it -- just about anything will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Paul -- Roy said five more have jumped on. I think that brings the total count to just about dozen pairs over the last year. Not bad for a speaker that has no real market. I wonder how many Klipschorns PK sold in his first year after making them available. I think Roy is doing A.O.K. It all depends on what you use for your starting point. We've been talking about Jubilees for five years I think, so you could figure it's only 2 or 3 pairs a year. My prediction is that sales will drop annually, but we'll see. Since I know you don't want to hurt Roy's feelings I am reading a little in between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Yep. No doubt about it. No OFFICIAL plans and a little guesswork involved. Also it's Not Klipsch. So let's hear the official word. So what did you actually order Dean? You are under the Radar. If you get the Real Deal, you will get Unlimited support from nice guy like Roy. However.......what is your plan for the top? Will you use only Klipsch HF horns? I was lined up after Hope to get only the bass bins but was afraid to every show or tell what I might have on the top. I know I asked all of this before but the thread got sidetracked with all the DIY junk. jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Dean, I don't have a problem with anything you said, not at all. I didn't mean for it to sound like I did. Thanks for your compliments and congrats on your Jubilee purchase, I am sure you will love them! Rigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It does seem like some enterprising guy, maybe Al K., could market a top for the Jubilee bass bins. Whoever did it could use the photo of PWK with the HOME prototype as the basis for it. An individual could get by selling just a few here and there, as long as he didn't want to retire from the proceeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 JC, I haven't ordered anything yet. I was just turned over to the internal commercial sales guy on Friday and he was out of town. The ball will probably start rolling this week. Looks like it's going to be the K-510 and K-69-A. I sent out some emails and received positive reports back from a couple of people familiar with the driver. I need final pricing on those before I decide whether I'm going passive or active -- I may not be able to afford the EV unit right now. Of course, the way I build passives, the EV unit might end up being less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Great. Keep us posted. The K501 is a Cd-Tractrix horn right? I'm pretty stupid with the CD thingy. Does the passive have to be pretty particular to flatline the curve? jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Don't quite know what to say to some of that stuff Craig, I'd like to think I'm pretty honest about what I hear. No, I won't trash something I don't care for or has lost favor with me here on the open forum. People like different things, so there isn't much point to it. And yes, sometimes it is because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings. JC, I want to pick up the discussion about sensitivity in the other thread. deano, what you got.....it's called class...... have a blessed day, roy delgado Disagree Experienced people in this setting have an obligation to neophytes to be overtly honest to the positive or negative. First this is a general observation and is not directed at anyone particular! The problem with "opinions" even by so called "experienced people" in this hobby is that very often opinions are formed and given from very limited conditions and experience and then reported as if it is a "FACT" and unfortunately alot of people are to insecure to trust there own opinions or willing to gain their own experience which would mean they have to hear it for themselves in there own unique situation. Unintentional MISINFORMATION is spread often on open Forums! We see this all the time on forums were people declare a piece of equipment or modification of equipment as good or bad but at best these opinions are being formed in a systems/room context that is unique to that one situation. It doesn't translate to all situations yet they will state these opinions without thinking about all the variables that went into that opinion. For Example: Room problems generally swamp most equipment and alot of speaker issues and yet very few people can or will deal with these issues yet they are declaring a speakers or piece of equipment sounds like "this or that" when really they are saying (the equipment, speaker and room) sounds like "this or that" at best. What one should keep in mind is these so called experienced people "who might be very nice people with the best of intentions" actually have limited experience in reality and often with no or inadequate test equipment and are listening in (less than ideal) uncontrolled enviroments and anyones opinions need to be taken with that reality in mind. The need for testing shouldn't really need explaining and yes I agree testing want tell us everything at this time but it is an important piece of the puzzle which with todays Testing Programs which are at very reasonable prices should be used by anyone serious about modifying and setting up there system along with listening(which for the most part has to be the final judge). Deans reservation about what he says/reports makes alot of since and is "very wise" based on all the variables and should be followed by more on open forums if you don't want to unintentially lead people down the wronrg path. mike tn[] well said miketn.....by the way,how are you and your plug ugly speakers? looks like another 5 or so, not counting deano, are joining the ranks..... have a blessed day, roy delgado Let me get my calculator out. Hmmm, where's the "on" button. Okay 5 multiplied by 20 equals 100. Fantastic, if my calculations are correct, in just 20 years from now, 2027, you'll have sold 100 pair of Jubilees. That should get their attention in marketing. NOSValves, I like the quote function. It's especially fun when someone leaves on everything that has been said before even when it isn't relevant. 100 PAIRS!! THAT WOULD BE SO COOL, DON'T YA THINK? [H] YEA!! have a blessed day, roy delgado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Paul -- Roy said five more have jumped on. I think that brings the total count to just about dozen pairs over the last year. Not bad for a speaker that has no real market. I wonder how many Klipschorns PK sold in his first year after making them available. I think Roy is doing A.O.K. It all depends on what you use for your starting point. We've been talking about Jubilees for five years I think, so you could figure it's only 2 or 3 pairs a year. My prediction is that sales will drop annually, but we'll see. Since I know you don't want to hurt Roy's feelings I am reading a little in between the lines. and i know that you don't want to hurt my feelings either, right? have a blessed day, roy delgado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 JC, I haven't ordered anything yet. I was just turned over to the internal commercial sales guy on Friday and he was out of town. The ball will probably start rolling this week. Looks like it's going to be the K-510 and K-69-A. I sent out some emails and received positive reports back from a couple of people familiar with the driver. I need final pricing on those before I decide whether I'm going passive or active -- I may not be able to afford the EV unit right now. Of course, the way I build passives, the EV unit might end up being less. What do a pair of Jubilee's cost anyway. - And you seem to be saying that you can order them in pieces? What's the pricing deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I want the one in the picture with PWK. Roy - why doesn't Klipsch make 'those'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 was considered too "expensive" (finding a vendor for the wood horn proved to be a real challenge especially for what we were looking for) and marketing thought that it would not be supported out there in the real US world. that is why the 60th khorns were only marketed to europe. the US has really been bit by the bose cube and the apple ipod. we decided that we could use a "smaller" lf horn in the cinema market (yes there is a larger lf horn) and since pwk thought the real "magic" of the jub was in the lf horn, i started to let people know that if you really, really wanted the infamous, unattainable jub, they could purchase the lf and one of our cinema horns and get to it. i never really thought that people would actually buy it!! [] and those that did, must have an curable case of the audio bug! (or not enough sense, in coyotee-o's case) have a blessed day, roy delgado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 was considered too "expensive" (finding a vendor for the wood horn proved to be a real challenge especially for what we were looking for) and marketing thought that it would not be supported out there in the real US world. that is why the 60th khorns were only marketed to europe. the US has really been bit by the bose cube and the apple ipod. we decided that we could use a "smaller" lf horn in the cinema market (yes there is a larger lf horn) and since pwk thought the real "magic" of the jub was in the lf horn, i started to let people know that if you really, really wanted the infamous, unattainable jub, they could purchase the lf and one of our cinema horns and get to it. i never really thought that people would actually buy it!! [] and those that did, must have an curable case of the audio bug! (or not enough sense, in coyotee-o's case) have a blessed day, roy delgado I think it is great that people are buying the Pro Cinema Jubilee for home use especially since the sales have been made because people have been reading about them on this forum. It also goes to show that people really are interested in hearing the last speaker that Roy and PWK worked on together. The speaker that PWK wanted to replace the Khorn with int the product line up wow. Congrats on the sales Roy perhaps I'll have a pair someday but I'll be taking mine raw and veneering them in lacewood. BTW I think there are many more out there plagued with audiogottahavnervousa : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Dean - what about these pretty Martinelli horns? http://www.woodhorn.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 was considered too "expensive" (finding a vendor for the wood horn proved to be a real challenge especially for what we were looking for) and marketing thought that it would not be supported out there in the real US world. that is why the 60th khorns were only marketed to europe. the US has really been bit by the bose cube and the apple ipod. I doubt it would be too expensive for the "unusual" people who buy Jubilees. Your friend Al Klappenberger was able to get aftermarket horns made for Khorns/Belles/La Scalas for a reasonable enough price that he was able to make a profit on them and still find people to buy them. Surely Klipsch could get good horns at an equal or better price than Al can. But maybe not. Maybe Al has more pull with vendors and can get a better deal than a corporation like Klipsch? Feelings or no feelings, the 402 is not fit for home viewing. The "wood" one in the picture with PWK looks nice, and the other prototype that was built and finished sort of like the top of a Khorn would also work well in a living room. The 402 belongs behind a movie screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Al's Trachorn is an eyesore and he'd be the first to admit it -- it has to be hid behind a motorboard/grill assembly. It's also a relatively straight-forward design, which is something that can't be said for the concoction Roy and PK came up with. My understanding on that one is that there were problems with the wood cracking and splitting. Now, a 400Hz custom horn from Martinelli, one not quite as elaborate as the one sitting on top of the Jubilee with PK -- run about $2200 a pair. This is about what most of the "Klipsch Faithful" will pay for a freaking used pair of Klipschorns, and much over that brings wailing and gnashing of teeth. After two years of pissing and moaning on this forum, Trey came in and said that if Klipsch could get 25 preorders for fully finished Jubilees -- they would build them. Any takers? Same with the 60th Anniversay Edition: Wah, wah, wah -- "Can't believe you can't get them here -- what an insult to the Klipsch Faithful" -- as if anyone would actually pony up the dough for them. So, who is Klipsch going to ramp up finished Jubilee production for -- a dozen Asian guys, a handful of Europeans, and Smilin? Give me a break. As for the 402, it may be ugly, but it probably outperforms any of the smaller horns regardless of what they are built out of, and some people are more interested in performance than asthetics. Hey, anyone who wants a finished pair can order them in raw birch and get them finished, and there's no shortage of wood horns on the market -- all you have to do is get out the checkbook. I''m sure it would be just lovely if Klipsch offered them full blown finished at $15k - $20k a pair, but with no available DIY path -- then none of us could own a pair. Great posts over the last couple of days Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Very well done Dean! [Y] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Dean, "As for the 402, it may be ugly, but it probably outperforms any of the smaller horns regardless of what they are built out of, and some people are more interested in performance than asthetics." Probably, the K402 and the K510 almost certainly have more even dispersion then the Martinelli horns. The K402/K510 are pretty unique in that they are Tractrix flares but with a CD type design to them. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Great posts over the last couple of days Paul. I agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yes! All very good points Dean! Paul I'll give your posts the benefit of doubt and trust that you actually mean well "BUT" what I don't understand is your almost complete negativity toward the Jubilee's (Same With SET AMPS) we have chosen to put together. I understand you have your OPINIONS and Just as you make your choices in equipment you chose to buy so do we. Do you think everyone likes the looks of Avantgard, B&W, Martin Logan, ETC........? Again we are fortunate to be able to get the Jubilee Performance at such a reasonable cost IMHO. I don't understand your need to jump in and Trash the looks of the Jubilee every chance you get! Do you think people haven't got EYEs of their own and Can't make up there own mind? Look to state your opinion about the looks is OK and I understand that but to constantly TRASH on something(Jubilee or SET) is something I don't understand about you. If PWK had your attitude or listened to people talking as you have then YOU Wouldn't Be Listening To Klipschorns Or Possibly Any Klipsch Speakers For That Matter! Maybe the Jubilee that we are using now will be were it stays or given time and enough interest after people begin hearing them a sustainable market will develope for the beautifully finished versions (along with the cost for that) just as it did for the Klipschorn but any Movement That Gets the Jubilee into the public area so that they are heard is a positive move and Roy deserves credit for trying to do just that! I know of no greater show of respect for PWK than the Efforts Roy Has Put Forth In Trying To Get The Jubilee Out Into and Available To The Public and I for one greatly appreciate and respect him for that! mike tn[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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