I just bought my first set of Belles! What amp for under $1500 do you recommend?

[pjpmd]

I just bought a beautiful set of 1983 Belles on Ebay in flawless Walnut. You probably saw them on there for sell a week or two ago. I probably paid too much, but they are beautiful, and I love them. I had a pair of beat-up La Scalas while in college, but they were stolen from me 7 years ago. I've been in school and internship ever since and unable to afford another pair of Heritage Klipsch's, and I refused to buy anything else. I used a Carver M-500 to drive my La Scalas, and thought the combination was wonderful. I'm not an "audiophile". But, I always heard everyone talking about tube amps and McIntosh. I didn't understand at the time...and still don't. I would love to hear a comparison, but I don't know anyone who owns a tube amp. Is there that much of a difference? Aren't tube amps pretty expensive? My budget for a new amp to run my Belles is about $1500, what would you buy if you were me? Someone recommended a used solid state McIntosh...I think it was the 2400. What do you all think? Do tubes require maintenance? Would you get a receiver or separates? Thank you all for your help.

Pete

[sunburnwilly]

Congrats on your Belles ! As far as amps go everyone will have an opinion , usualy suggesting what they have . I'll just say that I run mine with solid state power and am very happy . Maybe tubes would sound better but I don't need another hobby and they would probably be impractical for my multi channel setup . My advise to you is find a good dealer who will let you audition different amps and have at it !

[HDBRbuilder]

GIve a mid 1970's H/K 430 receiver a try...cheap alternative you may actually fall in love with

[Batmans Robin]

Pete,

I am a so-called "newbie" here too but listened to Klipsch when most of the KLIPSCHHEADS here were in diapers. Here is the skinny: Paul Wilbur Klipsch designed his LOUDspeakers with tubes in mind, but he himself later switched to solid state because of the convenience like everyone else.

BUT, tube amps are better, IMNSHO!!! Are they better enough for the extra work involved??? Only you can answer that question, Pete.

Audiophiles dislike Carver, but you thought yours was wonderful! So there!! IMNSHO, McIntosh sucks big time but you will find some (deaf people who can't hear) who swear by them. So there!!

Good news! If you want solid state, don't waste your time buying anything new. Old amplifiers off eBay or whatever beat the pants off any new product. Don't let Stereophool file you into thinking there has been any improvement!!!

Don't part with your $1500 until you know what you are doing. That is too much money to waste on a bone-headed decision. Take your time and AUDITION!!! Find someone close who does have a tube amp or plan a road trip to where you can hear one.

Enjoy your CHERRY BELLES!!! Amps aren't nearly as important as speakers, and you got yourself WINNERS, dude!!!!!!!!

[joshnich]

Congratulations on your new Belles. i too have a pair of Cherry Belles from the same time period. I personally like the sound of tube amplification. You can get into a nice tube amp for much less than your 1500 dollar budget ( and much more BTW!). A number of members on the forum are fans of vintage scott integrated amps. Check out www.nosvalves.com Craig (aka nosvalves) rebuilds these amps and I have to tell you they are hard to beat at many times what they cost. Drop craig a line and he'll tell how to go about it.

I would ignore the comments regarding Mcintosh from the previous poster. Not sure what he is trying to stir up. Macs are great amps. They have their own signature sound which many folks love.

Another way to go would be to use ss as your power amp and invest in a quality tube preamp. Check out www.juicymusicaudio.com for what many consider (me included) the best value in modern tube preamps.

Do some searches on this forum and you willl find a lot of useful information.

In regards to ss. There are many quality ss options including but not limited to vintage gear. Check out www.outlawaudio.com for a terrific modern ss integrated amp that is well within your budget. Again I dont think you will be disapointed.

josh

[SWL]

GIve a mid 1970's H/K 430 receiver a try...cheap alternative you may actually fall in love with

I picked one up a few months ago for fifty bucks in excellent condition from a guy that restores vintage gear.

In this hobby.....that was some of the best money I ever spent. [Y]

[Batmans Robin]

I'm not sure what you're trying to stir up, Mr. Nich. In my experience, Mac owners are deaf (sometimes dumb too []) and more into NAME BRAND CULT STATUS than good sound. They are GREAT amps if you want to impress people who don't know any better. If you want to try to change my opinion, lotsa luck, pardner!!!!!!!!

[joshnich]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Believe me, I would never try and change your mind, as it appears that it was made up some time ago. It would be nice however if you showed a little more class and respect for those whose opinions differ from yours. To characterize those who like the sound of McIntosh amps (or any other amp for that matter) as deaf and dumb is in my opinion a little harsh. You may not like the way they sound and that is fine – to each his own but it would be nice if you were little more civil with your comments. We are, as in the words of George Costanza, " just trying to have a civilization here".

Josh

[DU73]

Pete - congratulations on the Belles. They are such a beautiful speaker. That is if you can call a speaker "beautiful" [:^)]

on ebay australia, actually this is the first I have ever seen them on ebay here, a nice pair is going for AUD $3000 and no one has bid on them yet. Are people crazy.. what a price. If I didn't have my speakers and I had a bigger room I swear I would buy them, even just for 2 channel.

Wishful thinking I guess

Anyway here is the link for the item downunder http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Klipsch-La-Belle-Horn-Speaker_W0QQitemZ200290953660QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Hi_Fi_Speakers?hash=item200290953660&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[Doc Robin]

Welcome Pete and Congrats on the Belle's. I have ran mine with a Sony HT unit ( OK of the movies but not for quality 2 channel) I have a HK 430 25 watts per and a HK 730 40 watts per channel that I used for some great 2 channel listening. Just bit the bullett and bought a Mac 6450 SS integrated amp.

The HK amps sound great; you can turn the volume up about half way anything over that is so loud you can not stand it.

The Mac sounds so much better just bumping 1 watt on the meters it is unreal; I had it bumping 10 watts for a couple of songs and was in Heaven; just waiting for some time off to do some real listening.

This is just my personal opinion; you should listen to as many different set ups as possible to make up your own mind.

Where are you located? I did not see that in the thread any where. Later Bill

[Tarheel]

Pete - congratulations on the Belles. They are such a beautiful speaker. That is if you can call a speaker "beautiful"

on ebay australia, actually this is the first I have ever seen them on ebay here, a nice pair is going for AUD $3000 and no one has bid on them yet. Are people crazy.. what a price. If I didn't have my speakers and I had a bigger room I swear I would buy them, even just for 2 channel.

Wishful thinking I guess

Anyway here is the link for the item downunder http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Klipsch-La-Belle-Horn-Speaker_W0QQitemZ200290953660QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Hi_Fi_Speakers?hash=item200290953660&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Those are nice DownUnder and the auction ends soon......better go get them[]

[TheEvan]

pjpmd, where are you located? There may be a member close to you willing to extend a bit of hospitality for a listening session.

I've run my Klipschorns on a variety of gear, both tube and SS. I've had good results with McIntosh tube, Marantz/Paragon tube, Juicy Music tube, Jolida tube, vintage Fisher & Scott tube, Lux ss, Sansui ss and others. I didn't like the sound with Phase Linear or with an old NAD "Power Envelope" amp.

[PrestonTom]

Congratulations on the Belles!

The good news is that if you go to the used market for amps you can save a bundle. The additional good news is that you do not need to spend nearly that much ($1500) to get good sound.

More good news. The Klipsch cabinets are both efficient and do not present a terribly low impedance to the amplifier. So if the amp does not need to provide mega watts (power). If the amp does not provide mega amps (current), you are still okay.

So the quick advice is that: 1) amps tend to sound the most different when they are run at a high level (at or nearly at clipping), and 2) amps typically vary the most in how they reproduce bass - the lower octaves. There are other differences (noise at low levels etc) but hose are not as dramatic (typically)

So with those two points in mind, I would encourage to audition as many amps as possible. Certainly include some tube equipment.

As a matter of managing expectations, my humble opinion is that when you start using decent amps you may notice that some of the differences are subtle (despite every one's rhetoric). The bigger differences will arise from careful set up and placement of the speaker cabinets in the room. Those cabinet-room interactions deserve some careful experimentation.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Audio Flynn]

Belles are a beauty follows function classic design in loudspeakers to me.

The HK vintage ss receiver or integrateds are a good deal for less than $100 "test" so to speak. I have listenend to ss integrateds from Denon (3), HK, Sherwood Newcastle, Kenwood and chip amps on my Belles. Tubes always had better soundstage, attack, decay and instrumental realism.

I would never buy a tube receiver. Too much crammed in to small a spot for upgrades or repair.

Tube integrateds are a great entry level tube experience. My first was a Scott LK-48 with NOS Valves rebuld and bias mod.. If you wait and educate yourself you can get a nice NOS Valves Scott, Fisher or other integrated.

Do not buy a Mapleshade rebuilt amp it is my understandiung they bypass the active preamp when they rebuild. For vintage tube equipment the technician doing the rebuild is more important than the amp model.

If you want to shake the walls a 6L6 or 7591 tube amp is for you. EL84 or 7189 for modest listening levels.

Always get the seller to garuntee the amp not be DOA. SOme old solder jpoints can come loose in shipping a 45 year old amp. If the unit has not been rebuilt and you get it for $ 200 get the seller to garuntee the transformers not be DOA.

NOTE: Save up for replacing the crossover networks in 4-6 months and you get another significant improvment.

Good luck!

Rick

[kevinmi]

Some solid state amps are said to have a warm tube like sound, with McIntosh leading the pack. Other Amps include B&K, and a host of other quality amps. There are many people on this forum who use Mac amps, both SS and tube, and love the sound. Remember that your Belles are very efficient, and you don't need a monster amp to drive them. It is good advice to try to listen to other peoples systems if at all possible before spending your hard earned money. I would gladly let you hear my system if you are anywhere near me in Michigan (wear show shoes). I'm sure if you posted where you live, there would be someone on this forum nearby who would invite you in for a listen. -kevin

[garymd]

Based on your forum name, I'd guess you're either a doctor or you live in Maryland. If it is the latter, I'd be happy to have you come audition a couple different tube setups at my place just to give you an idea of what is available at different price points. I live just south of Baltimore in case you are interested.

- Gary

[seti]

Listen to as many amps as you can.

I was at a forum members house recently listening to La Scala II's and they sounded wonderful. I asked what amps were running them and to my surprise they were McIntosh MC250 solid state amps. They had been serviced by Terry DeWick. They were a perfect match for Heritage speakers. Before I was told what amps were playing I would have bet tube amps. Can't go wrong with McIntosh. At one point early in Klipsch history PWK mentioned them as a good match for khorns in the Dope From Hope.

BTW I owned Belles for many years they are wonderful speakers. I ran them with McIntosh MC30 monoblocks, Canarry Audio SET, and George Wright gear.

[Colin]

It depends; on many, many factors: 1. What source do you prefer? iPod, CD, vinyl, cable or DVD?2. How many channels do you have now or do you want to have?3. Do you have room for 4 or 5 big old horns?4. Do you have a sub-woofer - is it quite deep or more typical HT style? A really powerful sub makes tubes a perfect companion for big ole horns.5. How big is the listening room – how much space do you have?6. How loud do you play movies or music – intimate studio, small folk group, jazz club or rock concert?7. What really grabs you: clear vocal mid-range, solid bass, deep bass, accurate bass, tingling treble, dynamic snap, details, linear accuracy, tonal definition, separation between instruments, wide sound stage or huge 3D imaging? As you may have guessed, the answers to these questions steer you in the direction you should go. My two channel recommendations are:

• The Sonic Impact and Trends Audio are great class T chip amplifiers for super-efficient big ole horns and maybe all that you ever need
• So are the vintage twin transformer Harmon Kardon receivers 430, etc. (always get vintage equipment refurbished before you judge the sound).
• Next in price, but wonderful values nonetheless, are the refurbished vintage integrated tube amplifiers that poster NOSvalues offers
• Well worth the money and one of the best tube amplifiers I’ve heard on big ole horns is NOSvalves’ VRD amplifiers

I went for new Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours assembled, with a 45-pound vintage Pioneer class A solid-state amplifier driving my bass bins

And yes, most Mac are awesome.

[Dmannnnn]

GIve a mid 1970's H/K 430 receiver a try...cheap alternative you may actually fall in love with

I picked one up a few months ago for fifty bucks in excellent condition from a guy that restores vintage gear.

In this hobby.....that was some of the best money I ever spent.

I picked up one of these HK 430 receivers from ebay for my parents. I didn't expect much but it blew the doors of my Sansui 771. These are great old receivers. I only paid $43.00. What a bargain!

I must say I am absolutely impressed with my Parasound HCA1500A. Beautiful clean SS power. Pick one up for about $500 in mint condition and save the remaing $1000 for a high quality TUBE preamp. You will be a happy, happy man.

[Budman]

Pete, welcome to the forum. the last set of 83 belles that sold on ebay in WI for $2617.89 were in Walnut not Cherry. is this the set you bought.??? BKWO serial number 5Y128-129 that set is in mint condition and i don't think you payed to much.