OT...Compact Pistols

[Mighty Favog]

Can a registered dealer sell across state lines?

Yes, to another dealer. Then you go and fill out the paperwork from the receiving dealer.

[Andy W]

FWIW...

I have a Springfield XD-40, and I love it! I looked at the M&P but went with the XD due to better trigger feel (for me). The M&P is a more Glock like trigger feel. A good buddy of mine has the M&P 40 and I have shot it too. To tell you the truth the M&P shot a better group than my XD (from sandbags) at 50 feet. In fact with the ~1" group I shot at 50 ft., I've not shot a more accurate auto. But the XD feels better in my hand, I like the trigger, and it is utterly reliable, so XD it is. One of these days I might spring for a XD-40sc, but I doubt it, the 4" XD isn't that hard to carry.

I don't like the Glock grip angle so that's out. If you like the Glock grip angle then the G19 is to me the perfect size carry gun. The G26 is just too hard for me to get a grip on, and be able to hit the target (grip angle and too short for my hand)... The M&P compact is a much better fit in my hand than the G26.

I recently sold my wife's Kel-Tec P11. It was 100% reliable gun, and a good carry piece, I was just not accurate enough with it, so I either carry the XD or the SP101 2.5" .357 Magnum I bought to replace the Kel-Tec.

Kahr? Meh. I can't bring myself to pay that kind of money for what you get.

The Ruger SP101 is the most comfortable carry gun I've ever worn except for a S&W Airweight .38 SPL, but it was not +P rated and I'd rather have something I don't have to worry about shooting. Also the SP101 has a great DA trigger, and the weight of the steel > aluminum makes it much easier to shoot. And .357's out of the 2.5" barrel are a hoot!

I have shot Sig P226 and 229 (9mm and 357 Sig) and I am very accurate with both, both rapid and slow fire. However I prefer the simplicity of the XD, and I prefer a consistant trigger pull over the traditional DA (DA/SA).

I also like the Bersa Thunder .380 and .380CC - excellent guns for the money, but lacking in capacity compared to the XD, M&P, Glock etc.

[Deang]

"Can a registered dealer sell across state lines?"

Yes, but he must send it to someone with an FFL, where you will have to take delivery.

On your other question, there are a lot of things to choose from in the small auto category. Seriously, what you got her is going to be very hard to beat from a practical standpoint. The only thing she gains with a semi-auto is capacity, and the liklihood of needing that in the kind of altercation she is likely to encounter is about zero. I know guys who prepare and carry like their going to the OK Corral. I mean, once in blue moon a whack job goes ga-ga with an AK-47 somewhere. If it happens while you're carrying, I suggest you run like hell and find cover -- you're not going to be able to do much against that kind of firepower unless you're Wyatt Earp and don't mind taking a few rounds. If you can get good cover, and can get your hands to stop shaking -- a few good rounds is all you need to end it. My philosophy is to prepare and train for what's most likely to happen -- the training carries over when the unlikely happens.

So, what are the most likely scenarios?

[White_Hawk]

As far as capacity goes, more is better. I don't think people shoot quite as well under pressure as they do at the range =)

You need a few things: a gun that works, and practice, practice, practice. When you've finally practiced enough, practice more.

Dean's philosophy is right on - prepare and train for scenarios. And popping rounds off at the range isn't training =)

[CIGARBUM]

Given the choice; I'll take a S & W 686, in 22 Mag. One, I'll hit ya, where I want to, if it requires more that one, I don't need to be in gun fight. No recoil.

CB

[Deang]

"As far as capacity goes, more is better. I don't think people shoot quite as well under pressure as they do at the range =)"

What good are more bullets if you can't hit anything? It's not the pressure, it's the lack of tactical training. At the range, you have two static participants. In a gunfight, one or both are in motion. If you're properly trained, you don't need a lot of rounds unless you find yourself in an extended engagement -- not likely for the average civilian.

[JohnA]

The 180g .40 S&W loading IS a .45. It is a virtual duplicate of the popular 185 grain hollow point .45 ACP, my load of choice.

I carry a smoothed, parkerized Colt 1991A1 Compact (nee Officer's ACP). It has a 3 1/2" barrel and a shorter grip than a full-sized 1911 plus tritium sights. It weighs a little less and is the most accurate pistol I've had out of the box. 1911s have a very good, consistent trigger, unlike the Glocks I had. There are 9mm versions available from others.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/aegis/ultra_aegis_II/

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/compactprocarry/pro_carry_II/134/

[JohnA]

Still looking at getting a IWB, but don't know when.

.

James

Can't do better than Milt Sparks. Look at their VersaMax

http://www.miltsparks.com/VM-2.htm

Also look up "Thunderwear" and don't laugh. It works and I can carry a full-sized 1911 and spare mag in kakhi shorts and you wouldn't know it.

[jamesV]

Thanks John,

I seen his site yesterday. Really nice holsters... [H]

I might get one for now and see if I even like the IWB then I might go the custom route.

Plus DKP turned me onto a few gun forums that I have been reading and seeing other custom holsters....

James

[JohnA]

Dean- OMG that is beautiful. Double thumbs up on that one.I am a 1911 junkie myself for home defense and range guns.

Thanks. I had the money for a Les Baer Premier II, but after handling the Dan Wesson I just didn't see much point.

That's a DW?! I LOVED their old revolvers. I've never seen one of their 1911s.

[Islander]

Also look up "Thunderwear" and don't laugh.

So the lady says to the guy in the bicycle shorts, "Nice package! What caliber is it?"

[AnalogWave]

Extremely difficult topic to give advice upon simply because I believe it involves one’s abilities, both mental and physical, more so than a legal right.

I too choose not to carry, but come down firmly on the side of ownership and concealed carry for those that prove their ability to do so. It’s such a huge responsibility however, one I can only equate with bringing a child into this world, oddly enough. If you doubt your will, even the slightest bit, it’s my opinion you have no business carrying a weapon. The shear number of possible scenarios, anyone of which could leave you in legal jeopardy let alone physical, are staggering. Basically, it comes down to the element of surprise, which is almost always with the criminals. You can’t pull (legally) a concealed weapon until a threat is posed to you. So suddenly, everyone becomes a possible threat whose intent you must determine. I don’t know stats, but my guess is street crime is more likely to come at you in numbers of individuals vs. just one these days. And even if a lone criminal comes out of the shadows, weapon pointed, you are immediately at a critical disadvantage. You can try the old “Your shoe is untied…” and go for yours but you better be supremely confident and fast.

My thinking is, most criminals want something from you other than your life, which they can take but can’t have, so it has no value. Personally, I’m more than happy to give up whatever it is they want, compliment their matching hoodie and kicks, and let them be on their way. My wallet, watch, car… none of those things are worth taking a life over, which I’d have to live with for the rest of my life.

As for all this talk of shooting through automobile glass (from the inside out I assume unless you’re an assassin), letting loose a hot .38 , 9 or God forbid a .357 from inside a vehicle with no hearing protection… you might as well box up your gear and post it in the Garage cuz you’ll be deaf as a stone.

If a CC weapon is in your future, as stated previously, visit a dealer with a range and try a wide variety of weapons for fit, then heat a few up to see what naturally suits you. IMHO, don’t get hung up in the Caliber War. No one I know would volunteer to catch a .22 in the chest at 50 yds. let alone five feet. Modern self-defense ammo is nasty stuff designed to ruin someone’s day. 9mm is immensely popular because of it’s price and increased round capacity given similar frame sizes. Price should be NO OBJECT. If the one you feel most comfortable with is the most expensive, BUY IT. Another $xxx means nothing when it comes down to your life. My only other suggestion here would be not to acquire other brands/models with different manuals of arms as it can lead to hesitation when you can least afford it.

Post-purchase, lots of practice of course as mentioned but also with its limitations, as mentioned. The thing about honest-to-God training, my impression is a very small # of gun owners actually go through with it. It’s expensive, a little over-the-top for most and not something you do just once like a drivers license test. What I didn’t see quickly looking over this thread is the need to know your State and Local gun laws, inside and out. In your home the balance beam leans in your favor. Outside your home, it can be argued the beam leans in favor of the criminal. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.

[mmckown]

Extremely difficult topic to give advice upon simply because I believe it involves one’s abilities, both mental and physical, more so than a legal right.

In which case you would be wrong. The feeblest individual has the right to defend themselves. As does a 250Lb professional football player. I will agree that individuals that chose to carry take on a responsibility to train and prepare themselves. It is a right that carries with it huge responsibilities.

I too choose not to carry,

Why?

but come down firmly on the side of ownership and concealed carry for those that prove their ability to do so. It’s such a huge responsibility however, one I can only equate with bringing a child into this world, oddly enough. If you doubt your will, even the slightest bit, it’s my opinion you have no business carrying a weapon.

The first step to becoming a victim is to resolve to be one. The first step to STOP being a victim to to resolve to STOP being one, and take steps to ward that goal

The shear number of possible scenarios, anyone of which could leave you in legal jeopardy let alone physical, are staggering.

It sounds contrite, but better judged by 12 than carried by 6

Basically, it comes down to the element of surprise, which is almost always with the criminals.

Only if YOU let it be that way

You can’t pull (legally) a concealed weapon until a threat is posed to you. So suddenly, everyone becomes a possible threat whose intent you must determine.

You make this sound like a bad thing. It is not. It is called situational awareness and it is something everyone, armed or unarmed should practice every minute of every day. To not do so leads to that victim thingy, and that IS a bad thing

I don’t know stats, but my guess is street crime is more likely to come at you in numbers of individuals vs. just one these days.

I doubt the accuracy of this statement. Even if true firearms are the great equalizer.

And even if a lone criminal comes out of the shadows, weapon pointed, you are immediately at a critical disadvantage. You can try the old “Your shoe is untied…” and go for yours but you better be supremely confident and fast.

Back to situational awareness. If a criminal "comes out of the shadows at you" you have failed SA101. It has also been proven that people with minimal training can actually draw and fire at a target quicker than an assailant can pull the trigger. Sounds counter intuitive, but has been shown to be true over and over again

My thinking is, most criminals want something from you other than your life, which they can take but can’t have, so it has no value. Personally, I’m more than happy to give up whatever it is they want, compliment their matching hoodie and kicks, and let them be on their way. My wallet, watch, car… none of those things are worth taking a life over, which I’d have to live with for the rest of my life.

When a criminal introduces violence or the threat of violence into a situation your life is threaten. Period. You have chosen to place your life in the hands of a criminal, to let the criminal decide if you live or die. By refusing to defend yourself you have abducated the right to determine your own fate, and have handed that decision over your assaulter. I simply can not overstate what a poor choice I believe this is.

As for all this talk of shooting through automobile glass (from the inside out I assume unless you’re an assassin), letting loose a hot .38 , 9 or God forbid a .357 from inside a vehicle with no hearing protection… you might as well box up your gear and post it in the Garage cuz you’ll be deaf as a stone.

Let's see here...DEAF or DEAD. Only one letter difference. Your choice I guess.

If a CC weapon is in your future, as stated previously, visit a dealer with a range and try a wide variety of weapons for fit, then heat a few up to see what naturally suits you. IMHO, don’t get hung up in the Caliber War. No one I know would volunteer to catch a .22 in the chest at 50 yds. let alone five feet. Modern self-defense ammo is nasty stuff designed to ruin someone’s day. 9mm is immensely popular because of it’s price and increased round capacity given similar frame sizes. Price should be NO OBJECT. If the one you feel most comfortable with is the most expensive, BUY IT. Another $xxx means nothing when it comes down to your life. My only other suggestion here would be not to acquire other brands/models with different manuals of arms as it can lead to hesitation when you can least afford it.

Any gun is better than no gun. But...the purpose of a firearm is to end a confrontation. They do this by effectively incapacitating the target. Larger calibers have proven over and over and over and over again that they are better at incapacitating targets than smaller calibers. Why ? because bigger holes lead to greater and quicker blood loss causing a loss in blood pressure resulting in loss of consciousness. Larger calibers tend to penetrate better and do more damage to the tissure around the bullets path. Carry a .22 if that is all you can handle, but few adults fall into that catagory. I personally have watched a 4'11" 97 lb female hit bullseye after bullseye with full bore .45 loads.

Post-purchase, lots of practice of course as mentioned but also with its limitations, as mentioned. The thing about honest-to-God training, my impression is a very small # of gun owners actually go through with it. It’s expensive, a little over-the-top for most and not something you do just once like a drivers license test. What I didn’t see quickly looking over this thread is the need to know your State and Local gun laws, inside and out. In your home the balance beam leans in your favor. Outside your home, it can be argued the beam leans in favor of the criminal. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.

Practice, practice and practice some more. It's that pesky responsibility thing again. Formal training is nice and a certain plus to your abilities. Know the law and your Rights and how they pertain to you in EVERY situation.

[winchester21]

I had a 45 go off inside my truck a number years back. My ears rang for several days but I did not "go deaf".I certainly would not reccomend it unless somedody is trying to kill you(which was the case) but you will not lose your hearing permanently. The Speer Gold Dot Short barrel rounds reportedly are designed to go through windshields. One of the typical carjacking moves involves 2 assailants approaching from opposite sides. If I cant escape- and I see a weapon- I am shooting through windows from inside the car. It is not a matter of the car being worrth a life. it a matter of what ELSE they decide to do to you. Kidnapping is becoming very popular these days among the urban thug community. They will kidnap an individual- beat on them for 3 or 4 days. try to empty their ATM- sometimes try to extort money from the family if they think that you have anything. Then in some cases the victim is killed. This happened to the student body president on UNC Chapel Hill last year. If I am approached at an ATM, gas station, shopping center parking lot or other compromised situation by someone who fits the profile of an attacker- my hand is immediately on my firearm.(concealed) I will walk/run away if possible to try to avoid contact with them. If they continue I yell at them "Stop- get away from me- I am afraid of you- I have a gun". If a weapon is displayed or they continue to keep coming I draw my weapon which I already have my hand on and try my best to kill them if the situation degrades to the point to where I "have reasonable cause to believe that my life or the life of a family member is in danger". This advice came form a criminal attourney and a veteran of the Police force. I prefer this stratagey to relinquishing my tactical advantage and "giving them what they want" . my 2 cents worth.

[Islander]

I too choose not to carry,

Why?

You're asking someone to justify not carrying a gun? Is carrying a loaded pistol at all times now the normal way, the way of the majority of people? Have your streets really become that dangerous?

If an unarmed person is such an easy target, doesn't that mean that tourists visiting America are very vulnerable? Not familiar with the geography and maybe the language, and not even allowed to carry a gun. I may be wrong, but I assume that visitors can't legally walk through US Customs with a loaded pistol on their person or in their luggage. If tourists aren't being held up or shot very often, maybe it's not as bad out there as you think.

[dkp]

Still looking at getting a IWB, but don't know when.

.

James

Can't do better than Milt Sparks. Look at their VersaMax

http://www.miltsparks.com/VM-2.htm

Also look up "Thunderwear" and don't laugh. It works and I can carry a full-sized 1911 and spare mag in kakhi shorts and you wouldn't know it.

Milt Sparks gets high marks on most accounts but last time I checked had a waiting list of about 9 months.

[Deang]

Extremely difficult topic to give advice upon simply because I believe it involves one’s abilities, both mental and physical, more so than a legal right.

In which case you would be wrong. The feeblest individual has the right to defend themselves. As does a 250Lb professional football player. I will agree that individuals that chose to carry take on a responsibility to train and prepare themselves. It is a right that carries with it huge responsibilities.

I agree with AnalogWave on this point, which you've missed. He's not saying he believes a person doesn't have the right to defend themselves, but that the ability to do so is dependant on the person's skillsets and their ability to execute.

I too choose not to carry,

Why?

Probably for the same reasons I don't. 1) I live in a low crime area, 2) can't think of any scenerio I might encounter where I would be at an advantage by having a weapon on me, and 3) unless someone pulls a gun on me first -- if I shoot someone I'm going to prison.

...but come down firmly on the side of ownership and concealed carry for those that prove their ability to do so. It’s such a huge responsibility however, one I can only equate with bringing a child into this world, oddly enough. If you doubt your will, even the slightest bit, it’s my opinion you have no business carrying a weapon.

The first step to becoming a victim is to resolve to be one. The first step to STOP being a victim to to resolve to STOP being one, and take steps to ward that goal

Again, you missed his point. Read it again. I tell people I shoot with and teach to not confuse tactics with the will to execute. Knowing what to do and doing it are not the same thing.

The shear number of possible scenarios, anyone of which could leave you in legal jeopardy let alone physical, are staggering.

It sounds contrite, but better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Judged by 12 and carried by 6 can amount to the same thing if you screw up. You may screw up and just be carried by 6 nonetheless. I think it's funny how wannabe gunslingers always assume they're going to come out on top.

Basically, it comes down to the element of surprise, which is almost always with the criminals.

Only if YOU let it be that way

Please provide one example where you have the tactical advantage.

You can’t pull (legally) a concealed weapon until a threat is posed to you. So suddenly, everyone becomes a possible threat whose intent you must determine.

You make this sound like a bad thing. It is not. It is called situational awareness and it is something everyone, armed or unarmed should practice every minute of every day. To not do so leads to that victim thingy, and that IS a bad thing

Actually, you can't pull a gun on anyone unless your life is in jeopardy, which you will have to prove in court. Whether they are aware of it or not, most people do practice situational awareness. However, this is not the same as an armed person making a threat assessment and determining whether to draw and shoot.

I don’t know stats, but my guess is street crime is more likely to come at you in numbers of individuals vs. just one these days.

I doubt the accuracy of this statement. Even if true firearms are the great equalizer.

I don't doubt the accuracy at all. A weapon is only "the great equalizer" if it's in your hand before the altercation occurs.

And even if a lone criminal comes out of the shadows, weapon pointed, you are immediately at a critical disadvantage. You can try the old “Your shoe is untied…” and go for yours but you better be supremely confident and fast.

Back to situational awareness. If a criminal "comes out of the shadows at you" you have failed SA101.

Forget the shadows. Make improper eye contact with a seasoned street thug in the middle of the day, and he'll thump you in the head while a dozen people watch. These type people have experienced a multitude of violent engagements, and many won't rattle even if you pull a gun on them. These people also make assessments, use "situational awareness", have techniques designed to neutralize or paralyze, and know what it takes to maintain their tactical advantage. You can pass SA101 and still get the crap kicked out of you.

It has also been proven that people with minimal training can actually draw and fire at a target quicker than an assailant can pull the trigger...

[bs] Cite the study.

[Mighty Favog]

You can’t pull (legally) a concealed weapon until a threat is posed to you.....

.....Actually, you can't pull a gun on anyone unless your life is in jeopardy.....,

You also have the right to protect someone else that is being threatened as well. i.e.- If my wife were being beaten or raped, I have the right to protect her, even if it means shooting the person(s) that has escalated the level of violence to the point that using leathal force is needed.

[dkp]

Most so-called "bad guys" are looking for soft-targets and not those having a gun at the ready or making eye-contact with them on the street. I am always amazed when catching one of the "world's dumbest criminals" type shows and seeing the bad guys duck and run for cover as soon as they see the cashier going for a weapon. I have seen this countless times even when they have entered the store with gun in hand.

[winchester21]

I have traveled and worked extensively in Canada. I get a whole different mindset from a personal saftey standpoint. I don't feel threatened walking around at night in Montreal. There are parts of Toronto that can get a little dicey becuase of the gang presence. My friends in Saskatchawan hate the govt and pack heat all of the time and pretty much ignore the gun laws. But I always felt pretty safe in Winnipeg and never heard of anyone that I know getting attacked.You just dont see the types and numbers of dangerous people and behavior that you do in the states. Different situation.

Here -in most of the major cities in the US- we have roving bands of trash with long criminal records that the criminal justice/judical system has failed to control.The same individuals commit the same violent assaults and robberies again and again and again. Yet they get off with light sentences if they go to jail at all. Most of the time the charges are plea beaganed down to a misdomenear and they walk with some stupid ankle tracking bracelet or probation- until they kill somebody. Then they go away for a few years and typically get released on parole after serving part of their sentences. Many of them go back to kill again. It is not a gun issue- it is a people issue. And the failure of society to deal with it.

To answer your question- in the big cities- yes it is that dangerous, Our city came in 6th or 8th most dangerous in the US last year depending on who you believe As for tourists- the cities of Miami and Ft Lauderdale Fla actually had to have the license plate number sequences changed on the rental cars becuase the thugs were identifying/ following rental cars from the airports and robbing them. Several were murdered.I personally have known three people that have been killed by repeat offenders. One robbery/murder- One Carjacking/murder by a 16 year old gang member- one rape/murder of a friend's sister by a drug adict with a long criminal history. I choose to carry and will continue to do regardless of the law if it becomes illegal.