Trying to understand heritage vs new

[dtel]

There is an immediacy and "live" sound from these bigger horns that I have not heard anywhere other than with live music.

That about says it all, very true ! [Y]

[Groomlakearea51]

You might consider this to be the muscle cars of the day.

Nothing like a 426 Hemi Roadrunner to make you feel better on a Saturday morning.... Then some Black Sabbath on Saturday evening via the Klipschorns with the crew.... Ahhh.... the good ole' days [Y]

[winchester21]

I had 81s and 61s- RF 83s- RF3 for 8 years. Listened to one set of Cornwalls- sold all of the reference gear within a month- bought Heritage

Go for the heritage with your amp- no brainer- Reference are HT speakers for the most part. They are good within their application range.

[consistent]

Hi There,

I currently own '04 Khorns, have had Forte II, Heresy, La Scala...BUY THE FORTE II'S. You cannot go wrong, crisp, deep and can be moved around a room. Also very 'tweakable'

All the best

[Ironsave]

I vote for:

1. Cornwalls

2. Chorus II (Bigger version of Fortes I believe)

3. Forte/Forte II

4. Heresies with a nice sub

Of course K Horns would be sweet, if you have the right space; and La Scalas may suit you better than any in the list above.

Seek out and Listen......

(BTW, I have opted for #4 due to my location; I want a GOOD DEAL on my speakers, hard to find Corns or Chorus around here, and I will not pay $5-600 for Fortes. (I would really really prefer Chorus over Fortes).

I wonder if the "Heritage Sound" is also accurately described the "3 Way Sound". Reference are 2 way.... KLF Legend series is 3 way and many LOVE them for rock, etc......

Can not wait to hear what you decide........

[sheltie dave]

Frank, you still around?

[Rivernuggets]

Frank, you still around?

Haha! All the advice one could ever want....and where is he?!?

I have Heresy I and Forte II, and definately recommend buying those Forte IIs near you.

[Dennie]

Frank, you still around?

Haha! All the advice one could ever want....and where is he?!?

I have Heresy I and Forte II, and definately recommend buying those Forte IIs near you.

Frank is probably out buying as many Heritage speakers he can find. [] LOL

I bet he'll be back soon with some great stories and a house full of speakers!! []

Dennie

[artto]

I'm using Chorus One for the mains on the HT with Reference RC7 for the center. The rear channels are also RC7, but positioned vertically with the horn turned 90 degrees to orientate it as it should be. The rear RC7 used to be the front mains.

When I acquired the Chorus, of course my wife didn't like them taking up so much more space. However, the difference in sound quality was quite apparent. The Chorus (these are Chorus 1 with the exponential horns) provided much better sound coverage. We found that many things were easier to hear, and didn't require as high of a sound level as the RC7. So the Chorus stayed. Personally, I find the midrange and tractrix horns in the Reference Series a little buzzy sounding. But its your ears and you're the one who has to listen to it.

Also, IMO the Reference Series are simply not built as well as Heritage, with plastic driver baskets the like.

[Frank5]

Frank back. missed the Forte's :-(

now i am back to square one searching the various sources in my neck of the woods.

I certainly do appreciate the words of encouragement and will procure some heritage smaller horns (heresy to forte) as they become available.

staying tuned.

[sheltie dave]

Frank, was this the set in Columbia you missed?

[Frank5]

probably

[dtel]

You will find some just keep looking.

Glad to see you put your boots on, it can get deep around here sometimes. [][]

[ClaudeJ1]

Ohio here!

Welcome to the madness!!

Forte IIs and Quartets are in my oppinion, the most articulate Klipsch out there short of Jubilee. The Chorus, Forte, Quartet family is considdered "extended Heritage". If you can make false corners where needed, they are beutiful speakers when possitioned the propper distance from the corners. Plenty of access here to Heritage and some of the newer stuff as well. Tell the fforum where you are, and we'll try to guide you to someone so you can listen 4 yourself. My personal oppinion, Reference is a good sounding compromise for space saving and wife acceptance factor, but it sure isn't at the top of the heap.

Roger

I agree with Roger. The new stuff is all about WAF and following trends, not for the best sound.........a good compromise, but a compromise nonetheless. the best Klipsch speaker currently is the MCM-4-T, everything else is a compromise.

[Coytee]

the best Klipsch speaker currently is the MCM-4-T, everything else is a compromise.

Claude, I like you more & more....

[garyrc]

• The Forte (I) got a rave review from High Fidelity magazine.... and they found it to have low measured distortion at comparable Sound Pressure Levels, compared to the speakers they usually reviewed. I don't see many distortion measurements in reviews anymore, perhaps because some would measure distortion per watt input, which is pretty meaningless because of varying sensitivities, rather than per dB output in SPL under conditions that would facilitate comparison with other speakers the same person or magazine reviewed. I suspect that many of the new, lower sensitivity designs have higher distortion, if you compare them at the same (realistically high) SPL. Another speaker that has low measured distortion is the Klipschorn, so I would assume that the La Scala & La Scala II would be similar, but over narrower bandwidth, due to a higher bass cut-off than the K-horn. As a former poster said, the Forte II may, or may not, be better than the Forte I.
• The LaScala II got a good (mostly rave) review in Stereophile about 5 years ago, and was selected as a A level recommended component in their restricted bass extension category. After a certain (small) number of years Stereophile removes a component from their recommended components list, on the assumption that products are changed and upgraded (or just changed!) very frequently. They just removed the La Scala II because it timed out. Klipsch, especialy with the Heritage line, doesn't feel they have to come up with new models with new glittering adjectives and hot & cold running water every damn year. The LaScala II is the same speaker today that it was when Stereophile reviewed it.
• What speakers actually get refered to as Heritage may be inconsistant. At the least, they would include Klipschorns, La Scalas, Belles, Cornwalls, and Heresies. Some would include Forte ! and Forte II, Chorus, etc. But what about the upgrades and updates, and what about the Jubs, which get wonderful reviews from those who own them, and which Paul Klipsch helped design in colaboration with Roy Delgado, and was intended as a new version of the Klipschorn? Even though there are radically different crossovers in Klipschorns after about 2002, and the LaScala II reportedly has a less resonant cabinet than the I, and new crossovers, they surley are Heritage speakers.
• I hope you can listen for several hours to each contender. Many of us have found that with very well balanced and clean program material, in a good room, Heritage speakers sound very real, but are not as forgiving of bad recordings as some other speakers. Many details show up on my Khorns & Belle center that other speakers I have in the house miss. Some of these details are also missed by my Heresy IIs. Most of these details are very musical, but some not, from the rattling jewellry of a singer, to a microphone with its diaphram reaching its point of high distortion or even "crashing" due to too close placement to an instrument playing at very high SPL, etc. Speakers that have more "sidebands" (spurious frequencies that are a distortion product of a given frequency, and not on the original recording) than horn loaded drivers may mask some good and bad detail, and mush the sound over a bit. If the manufacturer has carefully selected materials and, ultimately, tested them by ear to provide rich sounding masking, the speaker may sound better with bad recordinge, but less real than Heritage with good recordings, IMO

IMO, Jubs might be the best -- by reputation -- Klipsch speaker used in the home. I have not heard them yet. I like Klipschorns very much (see my equipment list for model details), but will point out that they were great in our former house, but less so in our current one -- we are building a room especialy for them. Contrary to the thrust of some Klipsch advertizing, the K-horn has been changed quite audibly over the years, and a list of those changes are somewhere in the forum. To me, significant changes were the front mounting of the tweeter in about '83, the non metalic mid horn in 1987, and several significant crossover changes up to the most recent AK4 and AK5. IMO, K-horns must be pushed all the way into the corners, using some kind of rubber seal (provided in the new ones), unless your corners are just about perfectly square in all directions, and true (plane, without bumps or inclines). La Scala I & II may not have as much extended bass as some people would want, but, like K-horns, are very precise in the mids and highs, and the II seems to have better bass than the I. .

[edwinr]

I bought my 3 way horn speakers (Belles) brand new in 2007. NOTHING touches these loudspeakers for realism and dynamics - except maybe another pair of 3 way horns. Listening to small string ensembles or any well recorded music is breathtaking. Whether you buy new or used is not as much of an issue with Klipsch Heritage as other speaker brands. Good sound, design and build quality doesn't go out of style.

Regarding the newer Klipsch stuff, I've heard most of it. It's okay too, but the higher level horn loaded gear is much better. The thing is, if you buy the older Heritage gear, you pay the same or similar money for new stuff for something so much better.

Of course buying brand new Heritage is the very best way to go. You get the upgraded crossovers, new drivers and cabinets etc...

It's simple, really...

[pmsummer]

Frank, allow me to throw you a curve ball.

There was only only one speaker manufacturer/design Paul Klipsch respected: Jack Frazier.

There's a pair of Frazier Sevens on your local Craigslist for $375. They are amazing speakers, and that's a steal of a price (for what you get). They were $1200 in 1983. You ought to give them a listen.

[ClaudeJ1]

I am trying to understand if there are inherent differences in the sound characteristics of the heritage 3-way designs vs the newer triax horns with stiff, light weight cones. I understand that rooms, amps, height, etc have significant effects, but why do people posting here appear to have a profound love affair with the heritage designs? Do they perform better, or does it boil down to personal tastes?

See my avatar for my current, all-horn 4-way setup with 109 db/watt efficiency, for clear, dynamic, jaw dropping detail and dynamics......THE top of the line Klipsch product, IMHO is in the commercial theater division (the KPT-MCM-4-T-Grand) with top dog THX rating. Everything, including the Khorn is a compromise down from that (had Khorns for 30 years). My current setup is the poor man's version of the MCM 4 T and I have heard most everything Klipsch has ever made. Also note that my version of it is also the FUGLIEST thing you will ever see make great music.

Back in the 80's. I knew the Xover designer for the KG2, Ed Wolfrum, and heard the speakers at this house. That was the first "smaller than a Heresy" product, which was designed by Gary Gillum, now retired from Klipsch and started the 2-way trend. I did own KG-4's which were the next model up and first dual-driver bass reflex, 2-way setup that was ECONOMICAL to buy. Those ended up in my CAR, LOL. Even saw them being made at the factory when I visited PWK and co. back in 1985.

The trend for smaller and slender has continued to this day across all product lines, but is still an economic and aesthetic compromise with measureble and audible sound quality loss, although minor in the relative sense. But ALL Klipsch products, even the HD 300 sound better than BOSE, which sells without EVER allowing a consumer to compare to anything else in the same room.

I still prefer the Heritage 3-way over the newer 2-way stuff. Please note that the best HOME decor speaker from Klipsch is the Palladium, which I heard at headquarters a few years back and it is a 3 1/2 way system. Get the idea? My "7 foot stack"system is ALL HORNS and 4-way with the voice coils lined up.

PWK was famous for pontificating "the midrange is where we live." Which meant our hearing is most sensitive to the midrange. That is where THAT gets "sliced up" by all 2-way systems except the cusomized Jubilee with the K-402 monster tweeter, but I digress.

As you go "up the heritage line" you find that the better and better units have a midrange that crosses over lower and lower into the midrange for greater depth and clarity. IOW move the most sensitive sound band out of the direct radiators and into the mid horn, which is the opposite of all new Klipsch products except the Palladium and most of the Cinema line.

So in a nutshell, the Hertiage products, including the Heresy III make fewer compromises in the midrange than do all the latest designs.

Your ears would agree.

[edwinr]

The trend for smaller and slender has continued to this day across all product lines, but is still an economic and aesthetic compromise with measureble and audible sound quality loss, although minor in the relative sense. But ALL Klipsch products, even the HD 300 sound better than BOSE, which sells without EVER allowing a consumer to compare to anything else in the same room.

I still prefer the Heritage 3-way over the newer 2-way stuff. Please note that the best HOME decor speaker from Klipsch is the Palladium, which I heard at headquarters a few years back and it is a 3 1/2 way system. Get the idea? My "7 foot stack"system is ALL HORNS and 4-way with the voice coils lined up.

I agree with your compromise point. Tall and slender just doesn't cut it for true to life sound. Although some of the tall and slender products can sound okay in smaller rooms. In most cases, WAF issues mean there is no choice, anyway.

BUT... as with most things in life, size is everything. Unless near field monitoring is desirable, nothing beats big speakers in a big room. I recently heard the new Martin Logan CLX speakers. Good as the smaller Summits are, the bigger CLXs just blow them out of the water. Similarly there is a massive difference between the Magna Planar MG3.6R and the mighty MG20.1. Comparing my sturdy Belles with the stunning Klipschorn reveals a considerable improvement in soundstaging, dynamics and life like sound.

Big IS better.

P,S. You need to have a big room too...