kevinmi Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'm in Flint,MI, and have a pair of Khorns hooked up in my basement. The only problem is that nothing is stock on them except the bass bins. The woofers are Crites' cast replacements, the horns are my handbuilt Tractrix wooden horns being driven with Selenuim drivers. My crossovers are hand built ALK Universal clones modified with the 4500 crossover point. I do have a pair of Crites tweeters laying around also that I can put back in the system for comparison. The speakers are bi-amped using all tube amplifiers. The bass bins have enclosed backs. The bass sound should be close to the same coming from my Khorns compared to yours. You are welcome to drop by for a listen anytime. I would also be willing to drop by and give a listen to your set up when you are done with it, but I don't claim to be an "expert" with golden ears. If nothing else, you can listen to my modified Khorns and see just how far you can go with the various tweaks out there.-Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Droid; I'd take Kevin up on his offer. I really think that what's up is something "mechanical" that's why I recommended the real world simple "technical" possibilities, and the swapping out with a ss amp just to make sure about a "base line". Please let us know what you find out as you work on the solution(s). [H] PS: The "mumbo jumbo" stuff !!!! LOLOL!!!..... but, yah' gotta love the "magic crystal" boys though!! LOL!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yup, Something's definitely wrong. With the Crossover or the Drivers themselves. Or how you have the amps hooked up to the speakers. All the rest of the stuff is fine tuning.Especially adding back boards and the fit in the corner. I had some Khorns in the middle of the room and they still sounded great. Not as deep a Bass, but great none the less. If you liked the La Scallas, You'll like KHorns. Something is very, Very wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I had some Khorns in the middle of the room and they still sounded great. Not as deep a Bass, but great none the less. A friend of mine had some SK cornerhorns, sitting about 4ft out from the corners and they still sounded incredible.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks for the offer to consult, once I complete my troubleshooting it may get to that. I did set up one speaker with the factory bass low pass filter and was able to compare it with the Crites low pass filter. It definitely rolls off faster and has less high bass content hearable through the woofer section. The woody resonance is still there, so the next step seems to be to get into the bass bins and check the drivers and make sure there aren't any leaks. I'll probably replace the caps on the OEM low pass filters and put them back in when going through the bass bins. That's going to take a few days to get the parts and go through everything, so I'll shut up until that gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 the room...the room...the room! Is is as simple as that. Treat the room and you will have treated the problem. What size is your room and what treatments do you have? The Khorns will suffer badly where you have nodal (or modal) interference. They produce a lot of energy and standing waves. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 The room will definitely need some setup but at this point, I know it's not a modal issue. It's pretty easy to find out if there is a mode issue by moving the speakers and moving the listening position, all of which can have a big effect. I've done that and what I'm getting (especially the woody resonance in the high bass) is in the speakers, not the coupling to the room. That said, I will certainly be doing some things to improve the room once I solve the speaker issues and get them producing clean sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 That "woody" sound is usuall associated with very high intermodulation distortion. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoremusic Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You're dead wrong about any amplifier should sound good with khorns! Wrong, wrong, wrong! I've experienced it myself. If you want one of the greatest speakers ever designed to sound like it then you need to build your system around the khorn instead of throwing any type of high powered amplifier at it (adcom). If you're not willing to do that then sell them to someone who is. Also, if your room is too small then your efforts are futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 You're dead wrong about any amplifier should sound good with khorns! Wrong, wrong, wrong! I've experienced it myself. If you want one of the greatest speakers ever designed to sound like it then you need to build your system around the khorn instead of throwing any type of high powered amplifier at it (adcom). If you're not willing to do that then sell them to someone who is. Also, if your room is too small then your efforts are futile. Amplifiers can't "sound good". We're discussing the speakers here, which produce the sound. I've eperienced religion myself, but I'm not going to try to peddle that to anyone as fact. There's a difference between belief and fact. I still haven't had a single person tell me why, from a technical standpoint, that a good quality speaker like the Khorn shouldn't work well with any good amplifier . There are folks who spend thousands on the latest audiophile fad like magic rocks or cryotreated toilet paper because they "believe". Let me hear your facts and science, please, not religion. I reiterate. If Klipsch speakers will only produce clear, undistorted audio with "certain" amplifiers, they are technical failures. I don't know about you, but I don't think the Klipschorn has been around that long because they are virtually impossible to set up and use successfully. I'll keep investigating until I find the problem, and I guarantee that it isn't going to be the amplifier. I have already tried them with several different amps with IDENTICAL results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 T.R.O.L.L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatnoop Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 T.R.O.L.L. ding! ding! ding! ding! I believe we have a winner! Was beginning to suspect that also when he began demanding "factual" responses, didn't really care about the opinions of people here who have hundreds of man-years worth of experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You all sound like a bunch of whiny Klipsch fanboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Do I need to get this out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagelle Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Well, I probably would love to have k-horns but I don't have the room or the corners. I was even stretching it when I bought my Cornwall 3s, and I love them even though I would probably get more bass if I had corners. But a little joke about K-horns: the only time I heard them is at a guy's house who was kind of showing off. He turned them up so loud, it hurt my ears and I think I've been partially hearing impaired ever since. I can tell you one thing about them. They're very efficient. Seriously, after he lowered them, they sounded wonderful, with plenty of deep bass, and an amazing clarity. This fellow did have high quality amplification. From my lifelong experience with audio, I can say that a good speaker will not sound good with inferior amplification because it will clearly reproduce all the defects in the amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I have used lots of amps with my khorns and the diff is not as big as the room treatments I made. BUT best amp i have used to date is Pass's First Watt J2...extraordinary clarity and depth with superior images...at least on a khorn! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 So let me get this straight. I'f I'm having problems with my speakers and some of the people here tell me that I must do things that have nothing to do with the speakers (other than looking into interactions with the room environment) and I ask for technical explanations to support what they suggest, then that makes me a troll? I guess my reaction would be that there are some very gullible people who love to mumble mumbo jumbo and spend loads of money on stuff they don't need, who desperately need to get other people do buy into their delusion. I have gotten some excellent suggestions on how to troubleshoot this problem and ideas on what to look for, and I've been able to make some headway, and for those folks, I say thanks. I believe if Paul Klipsch was alive, he'd have some very good suggestions on things to check to see where the problem was occuring, and they certainly wouldn't include using only certain types of amps. (or super expensive cables or magic rocks.) And despite the troll spray and rhetoric, still not one single technical explanation as to why Klipschorns need a low power tube amp to sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Droid, you have some fundamental problems to fix on your speakers. Why feed the trolls? At some point the rest of us, who want to help, will simply move on. Most of us are not interested in reading another exchange on tubes vs solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It would have to do with the amount of distortion produced by the solid state amp in the sub Watt range. However, I have heard la scalas powered by an Alexis ra-100 with a portable mixer as the preamp. The sound was not as nice as the same speakers with the all tube (juicy Merlin pre, moondog 2a3) setup on the same speakers but there was nothing about the sound that would have made me think the ls had something wrong with them. I would be checking the woofers and making sure that they are the right model and that there is nothing loose or otherwise amiss with the physical construction of the cabs. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 That "woody" sound is usuall associated with very high intermodulation distortion. JJK Or somebody stuffed a skinny doll wearing a cowboy hat in it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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