speaker wire discussion for non believers

[Guest " "]

too many times when discussing speaker wire we get sucked into the same old gauge lenght lamp cord reteric. people are missing the point about engineered wires. things are done to the wires to change their behavior. Monster M-2 network terminators use the same concept as this one. a lot of crossover networks have zobel networks built into them. if your xovers don't, then zobels in cable terminations makes a lot of sense. price aside.

[Islander]

I'm not sure if I'm clearly understanding that, but softening rise and fall sounds like reducing slew rate ("...it softens the edges of a switching waveform...") or making transients less sharp and more dull. Is this considered a good thing? Are you recommending the little Zobel network in the cable for most speakers? Is this relevant when using active crossovers/processors like the Dx38?

[Guest " "]

zobel networks are used on a lot of high end crossover networks....mainly to soften impedence spikes. In an active senerio...can you plug in the driver data to have the active controller soften the impedence spikes? not sure about that one.

[derrickdj1]

This one should be interesting.[]

[seti]

But isn't this more a discussion for zobels and not speaker wire? I can see where zobels would be beneficial.

[jacksonbart]

If you're listening to a poorly designed speaker or one you don't like or just want to change, then lets zobel it. YMMV

[pzannucci]

But isn't this more a discussion for zobels and not speaker wire? I can see where zobels would be beneficial.

If you look at a number of high end speaker cables you will see a box (like MIT and Monster as shown) or as with a Bybee, a filter looking can. Since most of these are not powered and merely hooke to the speaker cables, it implies the box contains some type of network component. Auto-former, zobel, ladder filtering, all are just ways of modifying the sound that the amplifier generates. To the plus side, some of these components help to stabilize the amplifier with the speaker load which is definitely a win. The only down side is the cost of buying these types of cabling.

Most of these implementations are shielded with secrecy and are very expensive to purchase. Cut that little box open and find out it is usually very inexpensive to reverse engineer. You just have to decide what filtering (cable [] ) you like the sound of. Also, you need to hope the engineering is sound and it does not have adverse affects on your components.

[seti]

But isn't this more a discussion for zobels and not speaker wire? I can see where zobels would be beneficial.

If you look at a number of high end speaker cables you will see a box (like MIT and Monster as shown) or as with a Bybee, a filter looking can. Since most of these are not powered and merely hooke to the speaker cables, it implies the box contains some type of network component. Auto-former, zobel, ladder filtering, all are just ways of modifying the sound that the amplifier generates. To the plus side, some of these components help to stabilize the amplifier with the speaker load which is definitely a win. The only down side is the cost of buying these types of cabling.

Most of these implementations are shielded with secrecy and are very expensive to purchase. Cut that little box open and find out it is usually very inexpensive to reverse engineer. You just have to decide what filtering (cable ) you like the sound of. Also, you need to hope the engineering is sound and it does not have adverse affects on your components.

I always wondered what was in the little boxes. If it is zobels than it may be a little less BS than I thought but still BS on price 8-)

[Don Richard]

Zobel termination is a good practice that is not snake oil. The Zobel is nearly always placed at the load end of a cable and will be most effective where capacitive and inductive reactance is present, i.e. crossover network.

[tube fanatic]

In cases where a person is using a tube amp and wants the flexibility of using almost any kind of speaker cable, we often put a series r/c filter across the opt primary. That's another option to consider and its cost is negligible. Spending a fortune for a pair of "designer" speaker cables seems totally absurd to me.

[pzannucci]

A lot of this stuff with boxes vs. just cables likely isn't snake oil. The problem comes in when the technologies are not explained and the costs are astronomical for simple devices. Some of the implementations are good with certain amp / speaker combos, some not. Let your ears decide if it is worth the price. Also looking up patents that a company has on certain technologies might be helpful, or on similar claims. You might be able to decide help or hinderance. If you want to try it, you can likely do it on the cheap.

Working on your own crossovers and love your amp, design it in into the crossover.

[garyrc]

Cut that little box open and find out it is usually very inexpensive to reverse engineer

What if we cut that little box open and find nothing but a lead weight?

[tube fanatic]

Well, I was going to keep one of the best kept secrets in audio to myself, but what the heck:

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TREST-CL

Think I had too many beers.............

[Mongo171]

Well, I was going to keep one of the best kept secrets in audio to myself, but what the heck:

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TREST-CL

Think I had too many beers.............

LMAO!

The weird thing about those is that they actually charge real money! [:|]

[CECAA850]

But isn't this more a discussion for zobels and not speaker wire? I can see where zobels would be beneficial.

That was the first think I thought as well.

[Deang]

"... if your xovers don't, then zobels in cable terminations makes a lot of sense..."

A zobel is used to deal with the rising impedance due to the Le of the driver's voice coil. Normally, it would only be required if it was severe enough that it was causing an equally severe abberation in the frequency response. IOWs, you don't always need a zobel, and in many cases, even though the abberation exists, the addition of the zobel actually causes a subjective degradation in the sound. Finally, a calculation is required to get the proper value for the capacitor, and for that you need the Le of the VC. The zobel filter would be different for each driver.

[seti]

"... if your xovers don't, then zobels in cable terminations makes a lot of sense..."

A zobel is used to deal with the rising impedance due to the Le of the driver's voice coil. Normally, it would only be required if it was severe enough that it was causing an equally severe abberation in the frequency response. IOWs, you don't always need a zobel, and in many cases, even though the abberation exists, the addition of the zobel actually causes a subjective degradation in the sound. Finally, a calculation is required to get the proper value for the capacitor, and for that you need the Le of the VC. The zobel filter would be different for each driver.

Correct not a one zobel for all solution. The odds of getting the correct combo for your system if you needed it is pretty huge

[artto]

You see, the real problem (issue) here is stated in the post's subject line: "believe"

When something is in fact true, there's nothing to believe in. [:|]

[russ69]

I'm a cable guy, no doubt about that, however on the Klipsch loudspeakers I have, the effects of cable changes do not have a huge effect for some reason. Don't get all excited however, they still sound better with solid copper than with stranded cable, I'm not giving that up.

P.S. I'm putting a 1000 dollar a meter, interconnect cable on e-bay next week. Yes, I can hear the difference, it just wasn't the direction I wanted to go.

[Daddy Dee]

Well, I was going to keep one of the best kept secrets in audio to myself, but what the heck:

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TREST-CL

Think I had too many beers.............

tube fanatic,

thanks for the link on cable piers trestles.

In comparison i've found that i much prefer using the old glass telephone wire insulators. The sound improvement is pretty much the same, but since they have been in service for decades holding wires loaded with telephone signal, they do not require any break in period whatsoever. Just use them and right away you are getting all you can get out of keeping your speaker cables off the floor.