How loud do you listen?

[wvu80]

 

If you are into high fidelity, the answer is simple: You listen at the level of the actual performance. Less or more is not high fidelity by definition.

Dave

I'm Not sure that high fidelity has to = high volume. With that definition, anyone listening to something at 80db would not be considered high fidelity. I would venture there are a lot of high fidelity guys that listen to music at 75db.

Likewise, the actual performance in an action movie is at even higher levels than the final mix. That's why the crew wear ear plugs on the set.

All I know is that 110-115db sustained listening levels was too loud for me and I've always liked it loud.

 

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with Dave or maybe just commenting "over his shoulder."  Either way, not a big deal, as I guess I'm commenting over your shoulder. 

 

I will agree with Dave,though.  I've heard some Youtube vids which demo GIANT audiophile speakers, and they are played a very loud levels, and might feature a viola.  Well, violas don't play that loud!  So my conclusion would be even though the big Kenrick JBL's (or whatever) may sound good, an overly loud acoustical instrument played back on hi-end speakers does not impress me with the sound.

[derrickdj1]

It's also interesting that the mains and the sub do not seem to turn up and down equally. If I turn down the volume, the dialogue gets soft but the bass is still pretty strong and no longer sounds level matched. Near the end of the movie, I began to feel it was a bit loud so I turned it down 10dB but the sub still was cranking pretty loud.

 

This is true.  Unfortunately the volume or gain knob is universal and increases or decreases a multitude of frequencies.  Chris pointed out the FM curve which shows not all loudness is the same.  This is why some HT enthusiast use a house curve.  It will help with dialogue and help keep car doors  and other similar sounds not sounding like a two ton door closing.

[Paducah Home Theater]

This is why some HT enthusiast use a house curve.  It will help with dialogue and help keep car doors  and other similar sounds not sounding like a two ton door closing.

Need for Speed, somebody slams a trunk. It shook my whole room. Kind of ridiculous.

[Paducah Home Theater]

If you are into high fidelity, the answer is simple:  You listen at the level of the actual performance.  Less or more is not high fidelity by definition.

 

Dave

Little known fact about amplified concerts... towards the end of the performance, the audio guys will often have slowly turned it up as much as 10 dB due to everybody's ears getting desensitized. It seems like its the same volume as when it started but its probably not.

Edited December 27, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Chris A]

Little known fact about amplified concerts... towards the end of the performance, the audio guys will often have slowly turned it up as much as 10 dB

This is why I don't attend arena concerts anymore: the last time I went to a big concert (Genesis) it took my ears a full three days to recover.    This admittedly was a long time ago--in the late 1980s. 

 

I listen to their music at home now through a sound reproduction system with which I have full control over the volume knob.

 

Chris

[Mallette]

ittle known fact about amplified concerts... towards the end of the performance, the audio guys will often have slowly turned it up as much as 10 dB due to everybody's ears getting desensitized. It seems like its the same volume as when it started but its probably not

 

I am not talking about recorded speakers.  Artificially produced music, or any audio that cannot exist without a volume control in its original form, has no original natural level.  Should have made myself clear given the wide range of tastes here.

 

Dave

[Ceptorman]

 

If you are into high fidelity, the answer is simple:  You listen at the level of the actual performance.  Less or more is not high fidelity by definition.

 

Dave

Little known fact about amplified concerts... towards the end of the performance, the audio guys will often have slowly turned it up as much as 10 dB due to everybody's ears getting desensitized. It seems like its the same volume as when it started but its probably not.

 

Interesting….I did not know that.

[Thaddeus Smith]

85dB, unless I've been drinking.

[minermark]

85dB, unless I've been drinking.

Yep

[Paducah Home Theater]

ittle known fact about amplified concerts... towards the end of the performance, the audio guys will often have slowly turned it up as much as 10 dB due to everybody's ears getting desensitized. It seems like its the same volume as when it started but its probably not

I am not talking about recorded speakers. Artificially produced music, or any audio that cannot exist without a volume control in its original form, has no original natural level. Should have made myself clear given the wide range of tastes here.

Dave

Your comment just jogged a random factoid memory that was kinda sorta on topic, thats all. It does seem to be on par with the question of how blue is the sky though. I mean even an acoustic performance, which row are you sitting at? You can attend symphony and piano concerts all the time while not knowing how loud it is on the front row. Edited December 27, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Quiet_Hollow]

Interesting….I did not know that.

Same goes for the majority of action movies. They build to a crescendo. Clearly evident by taking a sonogram of the soundtrack.

[Quiet_Hollow]

This is why another scale is used to measure perceived loudness: the phon scale. When talking about perceived loudness, you should actually be using phons, found using the F-M curves in the figure.

But take note that no one in the profession does, because we're not talking about perceived loudness here.

 

It's a red herring for the sake of this discussion. It's an important factor in understanding psycho-acoustics, but the phon does not apply to the electro-mechanical part of the signal chain.

[mike stehr]

I've been to enough amplified rock concerts to notice that the first band/bands will be played at a lower volume, then they jack up the volume for the headliner band...or increase volume over the course of the band sets played...like MLO mentioned. I've noticed where you can hear slight clipping from the PA gear when the last band finally ends it's set.

[Mallette]

It does seem to be on par with the question of how blue is the sky though. I mean even an acoustic performance, which row are you sitting at? You can attend symphony and piano concerts all the time while not knowing how loud it is on the front row.

 

It's just like your listening room.  You need to know where the sweet spot(s) is.  A large hall may have several.  Jones Hall in Houston has some very good seats, as well as some I would not sit in free...terrible! 

 

When you don't know, you just have to make an educated guess.  The differences often are not small and any educated listener will hear significant differences in different seats, as well as the number of others present in the hall, etc.

 

Dave

[Chris A]

This is why another scale is used to measure perceived loudness: the phon scale. When talking about perceived loudness, you should actually be using phons, found using the F-M curves in the figure.

...But take note that no one in the profession does, because we're not talking about perceived loudness here...

 

Tom, the information was presented for a very specific reason:

 

Honestly, this is the first time I finished a movie and wondered if I had it too loud...It's difficult to say how long those peaks lasted but I'm sure the action scenes were around 100db continuous which can't be good for my hearing. The last thing I want to do is to damage my ears to where I can no longer enjoy movies or music.

 

It's not the super low stuff at 115 db that kills your ears though, its the higher stuff. I used to be able to hit 132 db in my car and I maxed it out all the time.

I'm not sure I follow that logic.  Sound Pressure is Sound Pressure, whether it's high frequencies or low frequencies.  I can't see how 132db of bass cannot be damaging to an unprotected ear.

 

Perhaps you missed these comments above.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Chris A

[tnr]

Interesting & informative thread.  I swapped out my older Outlaw pre/pro with a Pioneer Elite AVR & ran MCACC.  I am not using the amps in the AVR, using the pre-outs to my Outlaw amp.  The db level on the volume knob on the Pioneer is definitely not the same as the Outlaw pre/pro, so I agree that it varies across brands...frustrating!  I need to re-calibrate again and been putting it off because the test tones are loud and the weather hasn't been so great to put the dogs out while running the test tones.  Don't need their barking to throw it off.  I don't suppose you can run the calibration at lower db's and then adjust everything up equally?

 

1.  Can/should I adjust the V knob reading to a "standard"?

2.  My RSW-15 has a volume knob on the side which I will use to adjust the sub when needed.  Should that volume knob be at a certain spot prior to calibrating?

3.  I have a Radio Shack SPL meter.  Do you guys run your proprietary calibration software, and then check & adjust each speaker with the meter afterwards?

[Quiet_Hollow]

All clear Chris. Now I see where you were going.   

[derrickdj1]

My RSW-15 has a volume knob on the side which I will use to adjust the sub when needed. Should that volume knob be at a certain spot prior to calibrating?

 

Once the sub is calibrated, all volume adjustments are done thru the avr/preamp.

[MichaelandKlipsch]

The pre amp usually is set around -8 db to -4db I don't run my new subs hot though way way to powerful. I used to bump my THX ultra subs up 6 db but not with my JTRs

[Paducah Home Theater]

Other than compensated rifles, worst thing I have experienced is being on the receiving end of a drummer with projection cymbals. Those things are insane up close.