Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 2, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2015 I agree with you Mike I do not understand what is so hard about figuring out whether something is a personal attack or not. It is pretty easy and doesn't require a consensus or committee to figure it out does it? Or maybe it is who is making the attack, or whether the attack is serious enough to warrant sanction and that requires a consensus? Why does it have to rise to the level of an "attack"? Isn't it enough that that the argument turns personal? Don't punish the thread, warn or punish the offender, and do it out in the open so everyone can learn from it. I think if you want to correct the behavior, instead of locking the thread a moderator should just quote the offensive language of the poster, call it like they see it, and advise them that future transgressions will not be tolerated. That serves 3 very important purposes. First it tells the offender what is unacceptable so that if they are normal they can correct their behavior. Second, it tells other forum members what is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Lastly, when the general public goes through a thread they can see that this is a place for reasonable discussion and debate. Believe it or not, this adds credibility to the forum as a whole. Short of that, Klipsch should provide an incentive system for mods to give out warning points. First one to 500 points, or whatever, gets a free pair of speakers. I am of course kidding about that. I think Thad should undelete those posts, and point out how each one was personal. Better yet, create a private forum where forum members can watch Craig and Dean go at it, no holds barred, and sell tickets to it and use the money for a worthy cause. You can have matches about topics like cables, tube v. SS, high money parts vs. Cheep parts, all ot the topics that devolve into personal attacks. Tonight is perfect, offer up round one right before the fight. Five bucks a head, you will get at least 50 guys, that is 250. Everyone votes for the winner. On second thought . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Don't punish the thread, warn or punish the offender, and do it out in the open so everyone can learn from it. I think if you want to correct the behavior, instead of locking the thread a moderator should just quote the offensive language of the poster, call it like they see it, and advise them that future transgressions will not be tolerated. That serves 3 very important purposes. First it tells the offender what is unacceptable so that if they are normal they can correct their behavior. Second, it tells other forum members what is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Lastly, when the general public goes through a thread they can see that this is a place for reasonable discussion and debate. Believe it or not, this adds credibility to the forum as a whole. All good points...! By moderators editing the existing thread I used for an example others reading it after the fact will not understand because the context is lost. miketn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Please understand that I have several reservations about this company relating to their work and their blatant self-promotion with this post which IMO is contrary to forum rules. Marty I understand you having reservations about the rebuild methods your seeing. BUTT: Name me one vendor offering services that visit this forum that hasn't done self-promotion off and on here..! So when does the rule apply or not..? Another important point is practically every vendor offering services that might interest forum members has links advertising their websites..! What did AEA Audio do that all these other vendors haven't done..? miketn Edited May 2, 2015 by mikebse2a3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Regarding Point Number 2: Bullshit. Marty, you are a wordsmith. "Bullshit" isn't profanity. If you insist otherwise, yawl can go to hell. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Marty, as you should know, I'm only joshing about you. I think you're one of the best forum members, period. And the concerns you mentioned in that thread were genuine, and even I was thinking the exact same thing about soaking that precious, vintage equipment in a water base solution.... but it did come out look pretty spiffy. And it looks like Bruce or someone (can't remember) found out that guy's got good credentials. So, next time I find a vintage Scott laying around, I'll probably send it to Craig anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 First off, I'm the one who locked the thread. I had a nice PM with the originator of the thread and complimented him on his professionalism. This is the first forum I have ever been a moderator of. I'm sure everyone remembers the thread Chad started looking for moderators. There was no criteria given as to qualifications rather just "who do you want". Some how, I was selected as a moderator and now you're stuck with me. I'm certainly willing to learn and this is basically on the job training. There is value in most everything posted in this thread so far and I'm the first to admit that at times I could do things better. In light of that, I'm going to remove the personal attacks and re-open the thread. Thank you for putting up with me. Carl 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Seems Thad beat me to it. As he is the one that unlocked the thread, I'll let him keep it under control and censor what he sees fit. Cheers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I do not understand what is so hard about figuring out whether something is a personal attack or not. It is pretty easy and doesn't require a consensus or committee to figure it out does it? Or maybe it is who is making the attack, or whether the attack is serious enough to warrant sanction and that requires a consensus? Why does it have to rise to the level of an "attack"? Isn't it enough that that the argument turns personal? Politics is such a complicated topic. To each his own. For example, look at my signature. That was such a funny attack from Mark that I had to keep it for posterity. I still laugh at it on occasion. That was fun! I don't even being the social police, but I admit things can get absurd and abusive without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In almost all the cases of thread-locking I have seen, it's the wrong tool to use. The common circumstance is that one poster becomes offense to others, or two posters become offensive to each other. By "offensive" I mean making comments about the character or veracity of another, or by making lurid claims. It's never hard to see when it begins, and it certainly isn't hard to see who is doing it. The best tool would be surgical. It would excise the offensive posts only, so that they no longer had impact on the thread. Alternately, it would remove those posters from the thread, and leave the rest. That's fair. It penalizes the offender, leaves others to enjoy the content. Locking a thread penalizes all for the bad posts of a few. I can't count how many times, a poster has come into a thread with the specific strategy of getting the thread locked. Happens all the time. Why should that be the standard fix? "POST DELETED BY MODERATOR" - would be a very articulate tool in cases such as the one that is the subject of this thread. Clearly, many people found the information to be interesting. Why are they penalized? If the forum mechanics have the ability to ban an individual from a particular thread -- that is a better option. While certainly some posters do so only to incite a reaction from others, this forum is a microcosm of our society, one that is inching closer to outlawing disagreement. Reminds me of being in boot camp … someone would do something against the rules and the entire company would be punished -- often the guilty party would get to sit there and watch the rest of us get punished. That’s what happens to those here that have nothing better to do try to get a thread locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 First off, I'm the one who locked the thread. I had a nice PM with the originator of the thread and complimented him on his professionalism. This is the first forum I have ever been a moderator of. I'm sure everyone remembers the thread Chad started looking for moderators. There was no criteria given as to qualifications rather just "who do you want". Some how, I was selected as a moderator and now you're stuck with me. I'm certainly willing to learn and this is basically on the job training. There is value in most everything posted in this thread so far and I'm the first to admit that at times I could do things better. In light of that, I'm going to remove the personal attacks and re-open the thread. Thank you for putting up with me. Carl I read that thread, and to me, it looked like a pretty tough welcome from a few veterans. It would be kind of like the first day of NFL practice for a cocky college player who made it to the big league. "Let's clobber the dude!" I could see putting an end to it. I don't think there is a clear right or wrong call to make. The good part is that it did not get as bad as I have seen a number of other threads, where people started threatening lawsuits and such. That was funny and sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 If the forum mechanics have the ability to ban an individual from a particular thread -- that is a better option. There's no such function. You'd have to just delete each individual post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted May 2, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted May 2, 2015 Cecaa you were only using the tools given to you. And in that circumstance I would have done the same thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 It’s a thankless job Carl -- no ill will directed at you. If you ever get stuck, i have a list of people that should be banned 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 If the forum mechanics have the ability to ban an individual from a particular thread -- that is a better option. There's no such function. You'd have to just delete each individual post. well that’s a horse of a different color … probably too big of a job for the pay you’re getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The good part is that it did not get as bad as I have seen a number of other threads, where people started threatening lawsuits and such. I saw it as heading down the wrong path. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The good part is that it did not get as bad as I have seen a number of other threads, where people started threatening lawsuits and such. I saw it as heading down the wrong path. can we still blame you though…it’s a slow news day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 If the forum mechanics have the ability to ban an individual from a particular thread -- that is a better option. There's no such function. You'd have to just delete each individual post. In that event, maybe a Mod could either delete the text with a brief explanation to replace it, or leave the text and put a Mod warning along with it to show the language is starting to raise eyebrows. It's tough to handle either way. But I agree thread-banning would be a cool feature. I bet the developer of this forum software would love to know how useful this feature would be to moderators. It would be a real easy feature to add. I bet they could do it in less than an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 can we still blame you though Absolutely. I can always grab my martini shaker if things get too rough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The new guys have done great. I had the luxury of years of undercover work for Amy, then Spam Patrol, and suddenly found myself both outed and a moderator. Even with all that slow warm up I have stepped on more than one landmine. About all I can say is that when wrong I've willingly fallen on my sword and apologized. There is often no winning, just keeping the peace and protecting the Forum. If any of us get too carried way, Christy gives us a whack on the ears to clear our brains. And, in fact, we do consult before acting in any case we are not sure of. Having been around for well over a decade I can tell you that the "dealer" issues are the worst. There is no hard and fast rule except blatant commercialism and self-promotion. Those who haven't been here long might perceive that in some of our old timers who, indeed, are in business and yet are allowed to operate pretty freely on the Forum. Sort of "grandfathered" for both good conduct, outstanding reputations, and knowing just how close to toe the line over a very long time starting back in a much more "wild west" forum with few rules and even less moderation. We all are here at the convenience of Klipsch and many of us value this place as extended family. We have our family squabbles but mostly get over them.As mentioned above, about all the tools we have are warning points (yeah, scary...) and truncheons. A bit of finesse would be nice but the decision is usually lock it or delete it. What we can't do in most cases is ignore it. I am ALWAYS open to challenge from my friends here on any action I take and I guarantee I will take you input seriously as I would input from a friend. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Please understand that I have several reservations about this company relating to their work and their blatant self-promotion with this post which IMO is contrary to forum rules. Marty I understand you having reservations about the rebuild methods your seeing. BUTT: Name me one vendor offering services that visit this forum that hasn't done self-promotion off and on here..! So when does the rule apply or not..? Another important point is practically every vendor offering services that might interest forum members has links advertising their websites..! What did AEA Audio do that all these other vendors haven't done..? miketn Now Mike you probably figured out already that me making reference to abiding by Forum rules is a bit tongue-in-cheek. But I think I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Look, guys like Craig, Mark Dean, Bob, Gregg and maybe even the crossover engineer whose name escapes me now, didn't just show up and start pandering. All of them spent time here participating in the dialogue, helping out and, sure getting into donney brooks form time-to-time. To my mind with none of these guys being here wasn't simply a one way street to sales and service, and these were all individuals, not corporate entities. I know I've learned from and been helped by every person I just named. Do you know they posted the same exact post in the Tube Section of AK at the same time as they did here. As far as I can figure they've never participated in anything over there before either. Who else knows where else this has been posted. This is a marketing campaign. Period. Just remember that there are dozens and dozens of companies out there who could do the same thing but don't came here to market, from individuals like Terry Dewick, Doug's Tubes to company's like TubesandMore, Antique Electronics, Mouser etc. So yeah I do see a difference. Oh and Gilbert, I've never known you to kid around before. Poke the angry bear. Is this a new side of you? Edited May 2, 2015 by thebes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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