Locking Threads "due to bad personnel attacks"

[mikebse2a3]

 

If the forum mechanics have the ability to ban an individual from a particular thread -- that is a better option.

 

There's no such function.  You'd have to just delete each individual post.

 

 

Carl just to make clear you did what has been done for many years here and that is why I started this thread because it needs to stop IMHO.

 

It stops people from feeling free to post their experiences and ideas because they don't want to put up with the potential hassles.

 

Klipsch should be very concerned about how new members are treated here especially if they want to see more interest from the public visiting as well as the long time members.

 

The free exchange of ideas and information that we all enjoy is threatened and lost when an individual or persons cause a thread to be locked by personnel attacks.

 

Worst of all IMHO is the innocent are punished while the guilty are rewarded in a twisted sort of way.

 

If the individuals can't be blocked from a thread can they at least be blocked from the forum for time out period?  And if the pattern continues then a permanent banning should be considered IMO.

[dtel's wife]

I'm just glad I'm not the one that locked that thread!  

 

 I have been quietly following it in the background, using my best ninja skills!     Trust me....I'm usually not very good with ninja skills!

[dtel's wife]

Thebes, I'm thinking it's time for some Rockin' Dopsie and the Zydeco Twisters!

[mikebse2a3]

But I think I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Look, guys like Craig, Mark Dean, Bob, Gregg and maybe even the crossover engineer whose name escapes me now, didn't just show up and start pandering. All of them spent time here participating in the dialogue, helping out and, sure getting into donney brooks form time-to-time. To my mind with none of these guys being here wasn't simply a one way street to sales and service, and these were all individuals, not corporate entities. I know I've learned from and been helped by every person I just named.

 

Have you even given AEA a chance?  It's OK to be cautious but to go after them as happened in their thread was wrong period..!

 

Some of you treated them like an enemy and never gave them a chance to interact here. How can you be so quick to judge anyone like that?

 

Would you like to judged by what is on the surface or would you rather someone get to know you before they condemn you?

 

Sorry we disagree my friend..!

Edited May 2, 2015 by mikebse2a3

[Chief bonehead]

can we still blame you though

 

Absolutely.  I can always grab my martini shaker if things get too rough.

I will have a grey goose vodka martini with lots of olives. Be right over.

[PrestonTom]

A number of these suggestion revolve around  the idea: "the moderators need to spend time and clean up a mess left by others...".

 

Why should they? These are volunteers and I am certain they have better things to do.

 

Locking the thread is simple and direct. Let's not second guess about what could have or should have done.

 

Quite frankly, there is no reason the bad behavior should have occurred to begin with. The thread started out as an interesting and informative documentary. Others de-railed it, not the moderators.

[mikebse2a3]

A number of these suggestion revolve around  the idea: "the moderators need to spend time and clean up a mess left by others...".

 

Why should they? These are volunteers and I am certain they have better things to do.

 

Locking the thread is simple and direct. Let's not second guess about what could have or should have done.

 

Quite frankly, there is no reason the bad behavior should have occurred to begin with. The thread started out as an interesting and informative documentary. Others de-railed it, not the moderators.

 

And the guilty go free to repeat again and again...?

[wvu80]

I intend to explore those issues further in the re-opened thread, in a more restrained and civil manner.

 

Regarding Point Number 2: Bullshit.

 

It didn't even take you ONE freaking post to break your own civilized call for self-restraint!!!! 

 

 

 

That's hilarious! 

[oldtimer]

Those who haven't been here long might perceive that in some of our old timers who, indeed, are in business and yet are allowed to operate pretty freely on the Forum

 

Buy my hot sauce!

[Mallette]

Buy my hot sauce!

 

OK...and perfect example. 

 

Dave

[Jeff Matthews]

 

Those who haven't been here long might perceive that in some of our old timers who, indeed, are in business and yet are allowed to operate pretty freely on the Forum

 

Buy my hot sauce!

 

 

First, you have to post an extended article on what makes a hot sauce good and how to make it.

[oldtimer]

 

 

Those who haven't been here long might perceive that in some of our old timers who, indeed, are in business and yet are allowed to operate pretty freely on the Forum

 

Buy my hot sauce!

 

 

First, you have to post an extended article on what makes a hot sauce good and how to make it.

 

To paraphrase Duke Ellington:  "if it tastes good, it is good!"

 

It's made by combining ingredients of some, applying heat, adding other ingredients, and processed to a certain consistency.

 

How's that Jeff?

[Mallette]

Waste of time compared to just trying it, Jeff.  Your academic curiosity will melt away...and I mean that literally.

 

Dave

[Jeff Matthews]

Waste of time compared to just trying it, Jeff.  Your academic curiosity will melt away...and I mean that literally.

 

Dave

 

It's not often I sit in front of a good bowl of hot sauce when at home.  I usually have chips and sauce at local Mexican restaurants.  I must say, though, I love good, warm chips and great hot sauce. If it induces a little sweat, it's all the better.

[Mallette]

It's not often I sit in front of a good bowl of hot sauce when at home. I usually have chips and sauce at local Mexican restaurants. I must say, though, I love good, warm chips and great hot sauce. If it induces a little sweat, it's all the better.

 

Brian does hot sauce, not salsa.  I see your confusion.  He'd be an idiot to delve into that quagmire of hundreds of brands, mostly tasting like tomato soup with chunks.

 

Much better to explore a niche that has been left for decades largely to the generic, unaged "Lousiana Hot Sauce" and the aged Tabasco variant on the same theme. 

 

Lord knows why nobody has done this, but Brian has not only done it but produced a number of variants which are well beyond these venerable products.  The color, texture, and flavors are marvelous.  Order up a sampler set and try in in tomato soup, on crackers, in chili, spaghetti, or whatever you'd use Louisiana or Tabasco on. 
 

Went fast at Hope, and goes fast in my house.  Will need to order up soon. 

 

Goes great with Klipsch, too.

 

Dave

 

[derrickdj1]

It is great Mike started this thread.  It is apparent that many of us share his feelings.  The knowledge and experiences shared in many thread is beneficial to all of us.  Mind you manners and treat others as you would like to be treated has always been a nice golden rule to follow.

[Fjd]

 

I'm just thinking that maybe each of us has a point in the process where a moderator holding a finger over the lock button should stop and ask themself again, "am I locking this for the benefit of the forum or should I take a more specific stance in relation to the specific transgression since I have now inserted myself in the issue?"

 

 

 

 

As a general rule, the moderators will consult with each other prior to locking a thread such as the one you are referring to in the original post.  

 

The wide range of interpretations and impressions are exactly why we consult with each other.  What I may consider to be offensive or an attack,  one of the other moderators may see differently.  We do our best.

 

 

 

 

Carl just to make clear you did what has been done for many years here and that is why I started this thread because it needs to stop IMHO.

 

It stops people from feeling free to post their experiences and ideas because they don't want to put up with the potential hassles.

 

Klipsch should be very concerned about how new members are treated here especially if they want to see more interest from the public visiting as well as the long time members.

 

The free exchange of ideas and information that we all enjoy is threatened and lost when an individual or persons cause a thread to be locked by personnel attacks.

 

Worst of all IMHO is the innocent are punished while the guilty are rewarded in a twisted sort of way.

 

If the individuals can't be blocked from a thread can they at least be blocked from the forum for time out period? And if the pattern continues then a permanent banning should be considered IMO.

 

 

 

 

A number of these suggestion revolve around  the idea: "the moderators need to spend time and clean up a mess left by others...".

 

Why should they? These are volunteers and I am certain they have better things to do.

 

Locking the thread is simple and direct. Let's not second guess about what could have or should have done.

 

Quite frankly, there is no reason the bad behavior should have occurred to begin with. The thread started out as an interesting and informative documentary. Others de-railed it, not the moderators.

 

And the guilty go free to repeat again and again...?

 

 

 

I guess that I'm confused with your logic Tom since I have read many posts where the antics get to you. 

 

Since there was a determination made that some level of additional moderating was needed, we have the new group of moderators (volunteer or not is not really the issue).  Of course, it is a thankless job and in most instances there will be someone that disagrees with any decision made.  In addition, since they are not employees of Klipsch, their respective decisions will come under even more evaluation.  That is a fact of life that will be difficult to change just as we are witnessing the antics are difficult to change.

 

However, given that the moderators have shown that they take the responsibility seriously and have demonstrated that they generally put some time into certain decisions to reach a level of consensus, and have been very open to discussion in this thread to additional insight and perspective; I agree with Mike on why ignore the specific problem with the overall lock rather than develop a more specific approach to the specific issue or posts that are prompting the locks? 

 

Once the decision is made by the moderators to become involved, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that a specific direct action would involve much more time than the overall lock.  After all, it was their decision making process to arrive at the conclusion that they should be involved.

 

In many of the jobs that I'm assigned to, I not only have to demonstrate that I am independent from a factual standpoint, I need to clearly demonstrate that I am independent from an "appearance" to others standpoint too.

 

Let's think about the "appearance of independence" for a moment and if there is any potential impact in this situation.  For example, what are the potential ramifications to anyone not in the "circle of friends" when reading threads on the forum?

 

Think about this illustration, for example, while I believe this is not really factually correct and is presented for demonstration purposes only; Thebes (has been a supporter of NOS Valves work and who may have had work done by NOS Valves in the past – maybe a Marantz 8b or something else?) joins the thread without much in the way of verifiable support and makes statements that could be construed by some to border on slanderous-type statements about someone that has not hidden the fact they are in the same tube audio refurbishing business. 

 

Dean is just Dean being Dean, and after reading many forum posts (regarding shills and sock puppets) I realize (and I believe he subsequently realized) that he now inadvertently adds more fuel to the fire.  Then along comes NOS Valves with gun barrels blazing (most of us are used to that but many are not) and while he may have a defendable position does not maintain his composure in a discussion/debate format and adds even more fuel to the fire potentially providing a much distorted view of the thread starter (at this point we, as readers, have no clue if anyone's information is correct, but any personal attack-approach is not warranted).  Then as the grand finale, a non-employee of Klipsch, moderator comes in and locks the thread for vague reasons of personal attacks and there is a tendancy to think original poster made the attacks, which was not the case.

 

Like I stated above, moderating can be a very thankless job; however, by locking the entire thread without finding a method to directly hit on the issue, there would seem to be a significant risk to all involved of being accused of some level of collusion (shill, sock puppet, or otherwise, take your pick) to protect certain people's businesses on the forum at the expense of others.

 

Again, just to add emphasis for those that like to take things out of context and take a very small slice of this post, this is just an illustration of potential risk to credibility that may be out there and not a representation of anything that should be considered fact in this situation.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Fjd

[mikebse2a3]

It is great Mike started this thread.  It is apparent that many of us share his feelings.  The knowledge and experiences shared in many thread is beneficial to all of us.  Mind you manners and treat others as you would like to be treated has always been a nice golden rule to follow.

 

Thanks if didn't care about this place I would have just walked away and not gotten involved and I'm glad to see many others speaking up also..!!!

 

 

"Mind you manners and treat others as you would like to be treated has always been a nice golden rule to follow"   

Edited May 2, 2015 by mikebse2a3

[Max2]

A lot of smart guys here with tons of knowledge, experience and info. We're just one big sewing circle and I think its perfectly fine if a few folks get heated from time to time. People are passionate about this hobby. Things always work themselves out with a little give and take and before you know it, the parties in the spat are passing the beers again for another 8 months or so.  

 

Sounds like family living to me, but Im not gonna claim you guys

[thebes]

 

But I think I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Look, guys like Craig, Mark Dean, Bob, Gregg and maybe even the crossover engineer whose name escapes me now, didn't just show up and start pandering. All of them spent time here participating in the dialogue, helping out and, sure getting into donney brooks form time-to-time. To my mind with none of these guys being here wasn't simply a one way street to sales and service, and these were all individuals, not corporate entities. I know I've learned from and been helped by every person I just named.

 

Have you even given AEA a chance?  It's OK to be cautious but to go after them as happened in their thread was wrong period..!

 

Some of you treated them like an enemy and never gave them a chance to interact here. How can you be so quick to judge anyone like that?

 

Would you like to judged by what is on the surface or would you rather someone get to know you before they condemn you?

 

Sorry we disagree my friend..!

 

Mike, maybe you missed my first post when I apologized for the tenor of my initial comments on that company's post.

 

Now even my mother can't make me apologize twice for the same thing, and, yet, when I get time from this thread, I will offer up the exact same apology to that company. It's a sincere apology, but it's not an abject surrender to agreement with what they are peddling, nor should it be.

 

What you don't seem to want to acknowledge is that I still have problems with how they posted, and that they never even bothered to make themselves known here, maybe lend a hand, answer a post, offer some critical advice, before posting a long-winded advertisement for their company.  Somebody told me they apparently test their stuff using Klipsch.  Now how long have they owned those speakers and have they ever bothered to show up here and talk about that experience? Guess not.

 

Sometimes I don't agree with people and I let them know.  Yes, it should have been a more respectful  dialogue, but still, they are lucky they don't listen to the beatles, or they'd really be in trouble!

 

Now there is still an implication that I am some sort of shill for Craig in all this.

 

Let me be very clear. I consider Craig to be one of those wonderful Forum friends I have never met and hope I will someday.  I admire his work, his, honesty and integrity, and not only did he recondition my Marantz 8b, but he rebuilt a Scott 299 for me with his special biasing circuit etc.  Like many here, he's never been reluctant to help me through a re-build or some other technical glitch with patience, and guidance on his own time and dime I've heard his VRD's and his preamp and love them.  Sonically, I'd have his baby if I could and I've never been reluctant to praise his work because it's fabulous!

 

Does that make me his shill,?  Well I also happen to love Klipsch speakers, which is kinda silly given that they are a product built my people in hopes of making a buck and not for the sonic betterment of humanity, a cause that would warm my liberal soul. So does that make me shill for Klipsch or a dedicated fan.?

 

Do I praise Klipsch. Yes,. Do I praise Craig. Yes. do I praise Mark. Yes.  Do I praise Dean. Yes, do I praise Bob, well er um, there was a little contretemps when I felt that he should not be selling anything but PIO for use in Heritage crossovers, but...no nevermind, I still think he should be selling only PIO for use in Heritage.

 

All this fooferrah has made me miss this Saturday's only local PBS hour of Zydeco.  But taking Dtel's Wife's advice, I'm going to cue up the Zydeco Twisters on my system using ordinary, not magic cables, without the benefit of zeros and ones and other such digital fiddlybits, but a turntable, just a God intended.

 

And when I rest my head upon my pillow tonight it will be with the satisfaction that I am indeed a Legend In My Own MInd.

(Ok I was  really also going to end it with a declaration of being admired by all and vouchsafed by none, but that might be a stretch)