402 Price?

[Chris A]

One more comment to the OP:

 

I guess you understand the spirit that I mentioned my reply to your question.  You asked a difficult question and I offered the only one that I could recommend based on the information that I had. 

 

You know the seller and the situation, and I don't. If you're dealing with someone that believes the horns to be worth much more than the price that I mentioned, then you'll have to deal with your own knowledge of that seller and your own buying stratagems.

 

I know what I'd do for the situation that I'm faced with, and the non-standard needs that I have that require that the horn be modified substantially from its as-bought condition.   But remember this: no horn is worth $1000 each, IMHO, unless it's made of a material that is some sort of precious metal that can be melted down and sold for scrap at a profit to the horn buyer...or its size is much larger than a Shearer bass horn, and/or is very difficult to build.

 

JMTC.

 

Chris

Edited March 24, 2016 by Chris A

[HPower]

Hey Guys...

 

Thanks for the responses regarding pricing, and thanks for insight into some of the questions that I will be thinking about

once I have purchased the 402s.

 

Up here in Canada, it is a pretty rare opportunity to come across something like a pair of 402s.

Although I am not really financially ready to build up a complete Jubilee system all at one time, I think I will

spring for these horns while I have the chance.

 

I have been really enjoying my Cornscalas that I built 3 years ago, I wish I could dream up a way to utilize

the 402s with my CSs while I take my time sourcing the balance of a Jub set up.

[jwc]

Ain't no flies on Cornscalas......

 

[mikebse2a3]

But remember this: no horn is worth $1000 each, IMHO, unless it's made of a material that is some sort of precious metal that can be melted down and sold for scrap at a profit to the horn buyer...or its size is much larger than a Shearer bass horn, and/or is very difficult to build. JMTC. Chris

 

 

When I look at and more importantly listen to the K402 the material it is made of has very little to do with why it is well worth the asking price I gave for mine...!!!

The real value of the K402 is in it's performance...!!!

 

When someone questions the cost of the K402 have you taken into account the research and development that Roy/Klipsch have put into it and does anyone here think they know how much that adds to what Klipsch needs to charge to recoup cost and make a profit so that they can stay in business?

 

If all one considers is the cost of materials then the Khorn LF and Jub LF is just a bunch relatively cheap plywood if you don't understand the real value of the research, technology, development and cost of manufacturing especially in the USA...!!!!

 

JMTC

miketn

[HPower]

Ain't no flies on Cornscalas......

 

I hear ya jwc, mine are not getting the juice yours are but my new Triode Lab 2A3 Integrated does it's job… very well !

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

But remember this: no horn is worth $1000 each, IMHO, unless it's made of a material that is some sort of precious metal that can be melted down and sold for scrap at a profit to the horn buyer...or its size is much larger than a Shearer bass horn, and/or is very difficult to build. JMTC. Chris

When I look at and more importantly listen to the K402 the material it is made of has very little to do with why it is well worth the asking price I gave for mine...!!!

The real value of the K402 is in it's performance...!!!

When someone questions the cost of the K402 have you taken into account the research and development that Roy/Klipsch have put into it and does anyone here think they know how much that adds to what Klipsch needs to charge to recoup cost and make a profit so that they can stay in business?

If all one considers is the cost of materials then the Khorn LF and Jub LF is just a bunch relatively cheap plywood if you don't understand the real value of the research, technology, development and cost of manufacturing especially in the USA...!!!!

JMTC

miketn

HPower, glad you could find 402s in your area, I agree what others have said about the value and I don't believe the horn lens only option is available any longer.

Mike, I thought I was the only one who read Chris's post that way so I didn't comment thinking I wasn't understanding the point he was making.

The only thing, to my knowledge, that is bought and sold strictly for the value of the raw materials is scrap. Some things, most really, are worth less than the cost of extracting the raw materials, we call that stuff garbage.

I still think I am missing something in Chris' post on value.

Unless someone happens to have an injected mold system in their garage, what difference does in make what the cost of the raw materials are? It could be made entirely from used water bottles that are available for nothing, without the molds what you have is pretty much, water bottles.

Of course if there is some cheap way at home to make copies out of plaster, clay, wax, whatever, I suppose it would make the value less, assuming that person's time is worth nothing.

[Travis In Austin]

Ain't no flies on Cornscalas......

I hear ya jwc, mine are not getting the juice yours are but my new Triode Lab 2A3 Integrated does it's job… very well !

CS_1.JPG

TriLab_2A3.JPG

You are going to love Jubes in that room once you get there.

[Marvel]

Triode Lab 2A3 Integrated does it's job… very well !

Very nice!

 

I get it that the 402s seem overpriced, but y'all are correct that there was a lot of development and research that went into them.

 

Bruce

[dtel]

When I look at and more importantly listen to the K402 the material it is made of has very little to do with why it is well worth the asking price I gave for mine...!!! The real value of the K402 is in it's performance...!!!   When someone questions the cost of the K402 have you taken into account the research and development that Roy/Klipsch have put into it and does anyone here think they know how much that adds to what Klipsch needs to charge to recoup cost and make a profit so that they can stay in business?

 

I agree 1000%

 

It's the best horn I have ever heard.

Edited March 24, 2016 by dtel

[Chris A]

I have been really enjoying my Cornscalas that I built 3 years ago, I wish I could dream up a way to utilize the 402s with my CSs while I take my time sourcing the balance of a Jub set up.

 

In the mean time, perhaps this is an upgrade path that will work for the Cornscalas--at a much more reasonable price:

 

https://www.vfmaudio.com.au/19780/Horn-Flare-Large-Format-2-Inch-Throat-4-Bolt-Mount/

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Horn-Flare-Large-Format-2-Throat-4-Bolt-Mount-/351461368883

 

 

This horn is intermediate in size between a K-510 and K-402:  about 17 7/8" x 10" mouth.  Looks like you could "try before buy" at these prices quite easily.  Even if you still want K-402s, this will put you out about $100(AUS) for two in the short term.

 

You'll need two good 2" drivers and a digital crossover of some quality, like a used Dx38 or if you have a bit more funds, a Xilica XP 2040--which is even better quality at 24/96 (made in Canada), that can be used now and reused for future builds or a full-up Jubilee configuration at some future date.

 

Using something like REW or TrueRTA and a calibration microphone will get you very good performance using the Cornscala bass bin, with a crossover point around 600-800 Hz.

 

Chris

Edited April 12, 2016 by Chris A

[The Dude]

 

I have been really enjoying my Cornscalas that I built 3 years ago, I wish I could dream up a way to utilize the 402s with my CSs while I take my time sourcing the balance of a Jub set up.

 

In the mean time, perhaps this is an upgrade path that will work for the Cornscalas--at a much more reasonable price:

 

https://www.vfmaudio.com.au/19780/Horn-Flare-Large-Format-2-Inch-Throat-4-Bolt-Mount/

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Horn-Flare-Large-Format-2-Throat-4-Bolt-Mount-/351461368883

 

 

This horn is intermediate in size between a K-510 and K-402, but closer to the K-402 in size:  about 17 7/8" x 10" mouth.  Looks like you could "try before buy" at these prices quite easily.  Even if you still want K-402s, this will put you out about $100(AUS) for two in the short term.

 

You'll need two good 2" drivers and a digital crossover of some quality, like a used Dx38 or if you have a bit more funds, a Xilica XP 2040--which is even better quality at 24/96 (made in Canada), that can be used now and reused for future builds or a full-up Jubilee configuration at some future date.

 

Using something like REW or TrueRTA and a calibration microphone will get you very good performance using the Cornscala bass bin, with a crossover point around 600-800 Hz.

 

Chris

 

I am giving this horn a chance now.

 

I will also note that is now available at parts express (with what appears to be updates).

 

http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-wg45-50-2-90-x-40-abs-waveguide-4-bolt--294-2893

 

So we don't de rail the Op's thread, if anyone wants to take this horn to a new thread.   I have one started, I need to add some stuff and be more involved.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/162290-prv-wg45-50/

[Schu]

one review... and its not good.

[jwc]

Wow, I like that new horn find there Chris. I wonder if it will need EQ?

[Chris A]

That's why I recommended the active crossover for that constant coverage horn.  Looks familiar, doesn't it?

 

The world keeps turning...and new stuff keeps on appearing.  That one I found on diyAudio some time back.  There are some real audio enthusiasts in Oz.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

one review... and its not good.

 

Bolt mounting holes take about 60 seconds to drill--all four.  ABS cuts like butter (just like the K-402).

Edited March 24, 2016 by Chris A

[Chris A]

I am giving this horn a chance now. I will also note that is now available at parts express (with what appears to be updates). http://www.parts-exp...-bolt--294-2893

 

Parts Express has it covered.  This is another horn...from Brazil. 

 

Perhaps Bob C. might find a use for one of these in one of his CS configurations? 

 

Chris

Edited March 24, 2016 by Chris A

[Chris A]

These horns would suffice for a bookshelf-sized multiple entry horn design, sort of like this one but with an updated and better horn for purpose: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/285030-bookshelf-multi-way-point-source-horn.html

[mark1101]

Not to complicate the discussion but you DO NOT need a digital processor/active crossover to use the 510 and 402 horns.

 

I have the system in my avatar running the very complicated dual digital processors/crossovers setup and 5 amplifiers........Excellent in all regards.  Love it.  Uses 402 and 510 horns.

 

I also have a PURE ANALOG system on the other side of the room with passive crossovers and tube preamp and amps using 402 and 510 horns as well.  The ONE THING YOU MUST HAVE in this setup is an EQ.  I use a DBX analog graphical EQ that can take care of EQing the 402/510 setup just fine (used on the tape monitor loop of the preamp).

 

Roy Delgado tested this exact setup for many of us to hear in Hope.  It works and it is easy to use.  Saves a lot of money on processors and multiple amplifiers.  It also saves money on your passive crossovers because there IS NO EQ IN THE CROSSOVER.  You set the EQ yourself.

 

I highly recommend this FIRST for those interested in the 402 and 510 horns but not yet experienced in active crossovers.

 

My source equipment feeds both of these systems I mentioned so I can easily A/B test between them and while they do not sound exactly the same, it is hard to tell the top ends apart.  Using a microphone and RTA the curves are virtually identical.  In fact I used the curves from my big MCM setup to adjust the EQ on the analog system.......until they were the same.  Simple to do.  20 minute job with an RTA.  This setup WORKS GREAT.

 

JWC has been over and listened to this many times.  Perhaps he will comment if he sees this.  I would put this setup up against anything in a room and I'm sure it would do just fine.

[Chris A]

As always, Mark, you've got something good to consider.  Just a comment on the above for those that might be low-balling their EQ costs:  I'd recommend a pretty good EQ unit so as not to degrade fidelity.  Some of the most pernicious signal degradation that I've experienced over the years came from analog EQ boxes.  By the time you get the quality of the EQ up (assuming that you're not talking about JRiver or something happening at the signal source) the cost begins to climb into the realm of a good used digital crossover, I've found. That's why I recommend the crossovers - two for one, so to speak. 

 

With source-located EQ like JRiver, you're stuck with digital source and can't use analog inputs without first piping all analog signals through a computer running JRiver, etc.

 

Chris

Edited March 24, 2016 by Chris A

[babadono]

But remember this: no horn is worth $1000 each, IMHO, unless it's made of a material that is some sort of precious metal that can be melted down and sold for scrap at a profit to the horn buyer...or its size is much larger than a Shearer bass horn, and/or is very difficult to build.

.

 Isn't this what one has to pay if they want a K402? Unless of course they luck onto a used one?